Rayvin

Thanks mate, interesting news. As an aside, assuming the SNP clean up in Scotland, is 35% plus whatever the Lib Dems get enough to prevent a Tory majority when it comes to seats?

If it's both, eventually, they'll choose between them.

So you think there's a further category who can recognise that someone like Corbyn is needed in principle, but are too scared to vote for it because it's new and different. I actually think you might have a point there.

Where's that approval rating bit from?

People voted for Brexit out of desperation as much as small mindedness. For me, the whole thing comes down to this: Are people desperate, angry and wanting change, or are they just small minded racists. If it's the former, eventually we'll win. If the latter then agreed, we're fucked.

@Dr Gloom If they don't this time, 5 more years of the Tories will have them desperate enough to do so. Falling living stands and wealth inequality pretty much guaranteed with the Tories after all.

Who is Corbyn not speaking to? From your past posts, I can only conclude it's people who value a return to British Imperialism and the associated patriotism, over the opportunity to make themselves better off. Oh and anyone earning above £80k who doesn't have a conscience. If that's a sufficiently large proportion of the electorate to lose an election, then we're fucked no matter who is running the thing - the Labour leader who could appeal to such people wouldn't be able to resolve any of the problems. We'll see I suppose, but there should really be something in the Labour manifesto for everyone. Moreso than I've ever seen from Labour before.

The Lib Dems appear to be a big letdown, agreed. I was hoping they'd take about 20 seats back from the Tories due to losing them last time. Unfortunately though, they don't appear to have a very strong sense of where the public mood is. Let's hope they can turn it around.

Yep, while sympathetic to HF's point, this is an own goal by Labour. Nothing stopping them from having the numbers on paper in front of them. The Tories will be able to use this, and that's the problem.

This didn't sound like it went well. Annoyingly. The presenter is coming under fire for being overly aggressive about it but at the end of the day, this is the sort of thing he should be ready for from radio and tv personalities that he's about to make poorer.

Means we're all better represented though. Even though I accept it fortifies UKIP (as finished as I think they are).

The battleground has moved though, and the Tories seem to know it. If they keep forcing their agenda, and we dig our heels in on Corbynesque policies, eventually the battle will be won. The only long term hope the Tories have is that idealists such as myself cave in, or they move to the left. Eventually, a Corbyn style Labour government will get in, ideally implement proportional representation (properly) and then the Tories are doomed.

The civil service run the country, all politicians do is aim them at things. Agreed on Abbott, she's a liability. But then look at Johnson. We have utterly shit politicians for an utterly shit time.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/29/election-centre-ground-left-labour-tory-manifestos "Whatever the outcome, this election has forced the centreground to the left"

At the risk of falling down the rabbit hole, I'm tempted to say that the left have been divisive also. Neither the left or the right sees us as as just 'people'. Both sides see race, gender and sexuality as sources of profound difference. The left others the mainstream and the right others the minorities. But yes, the right are far better at harnessing the outcome.

Yeah but as we've seen in the UK and the US, and arguably all over Europe, there are a sizeable number of people in all Western countries for whom this happened too fast. We've been living in a bubble IMO, which is why Brexit came as such a shock.

Would argue Multiculturalism was done too quickly tbh. Didn't take enough people with it, even though it is a laudable goal. Was done quickly for profit I imagine.

Aye but Twitters is full of 'bleeding heart lefties'. She got a decent cheer when she was talking about her hardline on Brexit, and save for Paxman making her look a bit stupid once, she was otherwise fairly robust. I don't think this interview will have done her any favours, but I'm not sure it's done her any harm either. Arguably it has done Corbyn a favour, so there's that at least.

So true.

Suppose so. What a grim state of affairs though.

You know, I actually think that might be one of the better negotiating strategies.

I can see what you're saying but 'no deal' is likely to be far worse than a bad deal. The EU will know this when the time comes, as will we. No deal would hurt us far more than them. She's threatening to chop our leg off in order to take out one of their toes.

Been gone for longer than that. Over a month I'd say since he posted properly. I think he's left us for pastures new.

Can't think of any reason that they would, so it'll have to be incompetence.

It's been interesting how little Brexit has featured in this from Labour's point of view. Starting to look like very sensible strategy.