Rayvin

The battleground has moved though, and the Tories seem to know it. If they keep forcing their agenda, and we dig our heels in on Corbynesque policies, eventually the battle will be won. The only long term hope the Tories have is that idealists such as myself cave in, or they move to the left. Eventually, a Corbyn style Labour government will get in, ideally implement proportional representation (properly) and then the Tories are doomed.

The civil service run the country, all politicians do is aim them at things. Agreed on Abbott, she's a liability. But then look at Johnson. We have utterly shit politicians for an utterly shit time.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/29/election-centre-ground-left-labour-tory-manifestos "Whatever the outcome, this election has forced the centreground to the left"

At the risk of falling down the rabbit hole, I'm tempted to say that the left have been divisive also. Neither the left or the right sees us as as just 'people'. Both sides see race, gender and sexuality as sources of profound difference. The left others the mainstream and the right others the minorities. But yes, the right are far better at harnessing the outcome.

Yeah but as we've seen in the UK and the US, and arguably all over Europe, there are a sizeable number of people in all Western countries for whom this happened too fast. We've been living in a bubble IMO, which is why Brexit came as such a shock.

Would argue Multiculturalism was done too quickly tbh. Didn't take enough people with it, even though it is a laudable goal. Was done quickly for profit I imagine.

Aye but Twitters is full of 'bleeding heart lefties'. She got a decent cheer when she was talking about her hardline on Brexit, and save for Paxman making her look a bit stupid once, she was otherwise fairly robust. I don't think this interview will have done her any favours, but I'm not sure it's done her any harm either. Arguably it has done Corbyn a favour, so there's that at least.

So true.

Suppose so. What a grim state of affairs though.

You know, I actually think that might be one of the better negotiating strategies.

I can see what you're saying but 'no deal' is likely to be far worse than a bad deal. The EU will know this when the time comes, as will we. No deal would hurt us far more than them. She's threatening to chop our leg off in order to take out one of their toes.

Been gone for longer than that. Over a month I'd say since he posted properly. I think he's left us for pastures new.

Can't think of any reason that they would, so it'll have to be incompetence.

It's been interesting how little Brexit has featured in this from Labour's point of view. Starting to look like very sensible strategy.

He looks absolutely the same to me. I went to see him last year when he was speaking in Newcastle City Centre. Same manner, same presentation. At the end of the day, who cares though. The main point is that he now looks electable to people who previously didn't think he was. As an aside though, one thing that concerns me is that if he looks likely to win it, people might scare away from voting for him. The stuff about how unfit he is for office he is might still be buried in people's minds.

Let's not get too carried away like, he hasn't done anything yet. Polls are better but we could still end up with a landslide. Personally feel the difference has been that people are seeing what he says himself rather than what how it looks through the filter of the press. It's also been beneficial that the PLP have finally shut up, as KD says.

Wasn't having a dig tbf, just quite happy that it seems to be working. If he prevents the majority (and I agree, it's still a longshot) then I'll just be quietly pleased. Ish.

You legend. This is exactly what I hoped might happen with Corbyn. @Renton Fair play for not being tribal about it, I probably owe you an apology there for thinking you wouldn't actually consider it. Sorry I await abuse for apologising.

Well done mate - sorry I left abruptly, got called away cos my partner slashed her hand open with a mackerel tin... (She's fine) Good job with it, serious major effort to play for that long.

What swung you?

Seriously?!

I agree with you 100% on this, reached the same conclusion myself. That said, the only thing you could add in that -would- give free will, is the soul. So if free will exists, so must 'the soul'.

The Guardian doesn't have a choice now - they've got to back him. That's the whole thing with Corbyn, he's forcing people to actually choose between the Tories and change.

Basically yeah.