Rayvin

The only positive impact on the people on benefits would be to encourage those few who are just idle to actually find a job, so yes, I'd agree otherwise. One thing with raising it quickly though - you're saying it's gone up 69%. That would beat inflation comfortably, and would mean that actually, in the short to medium term, it has made people better off.

If everyone gets a two quid rise, the business owners are worse off. At least temporarily, anyway (before pricing adjusts itself to reflect the new levels of wealth present through society). The real purpose of minimum wage, I think, is to protect workers in an environment where we have more capacity than demand. If we pegged CEO salaries against staff incomes, we'd actually be able to address actual inequality to a degree. Raising minimum wage sounds good but achieves little. That said, every time it goes up in our company we have to pay a good number of other people more as well, in order to keep up pay bandings and employee motivation to excel. Once you get to executive level though, the difference becomes irrelevant - the pay is so much higher that it doesn't really even matter.

If we sent you up into space, and you were able to look at the earth, would you believe it then? As another question, what would it do to your worldview if you were given incontrovertible proof of the earth being a sphere? To answer the same question from the other side, if I was given absolute proof that the earth was flat, it would probably cave in all remaining trust (little as it is) that I have in any information given to us in society. Principally because for such a secret to have been kept, you would need an entire class of people living separate from the rest of us. No one from our 'group' could ever be allowed to reach a position where they could independently verify this for themselves or the secret would be out. It would actually be a Matrix style reckoning. I consider it absolutely implausible that none of the people who are in positions where they are able to verify whether or not the earth is a sphere would not have shared this, so it would have to be an international conspiracy aimed at maintaining a divide between two class groups.

Actually quite pleased about that

That said, I think this is an elaborate ruse to wind up enough people that they all chip in to get him into one of the first commercial spacecraft

There was an actual experiment done to prove the curvature of the earth. It can be easily redone. The Bedford level experiment I think? Guy in a boat in a canal. The canal stretches off into the distance and the guy disappears over the end of it as he hits the horizon. Proving that the earth can't be flat. You or I could replicate this easily.

Yeah you'll be right. Fucking weird battle to choose otherwise.

Wolfy - I still don't fully get why this issue is the one to dig your heels in on. I mean, if you're going to challenge everything we're told, why not claim we're in the Matrix or be a scientologist or something? And the other thing. Many people believe in the flat earth theory - which means you're unlikely to have just come up with it yourself. That being the case, someone has presumably informed you on it. Why are they more trustworthy than anyone else? Why can you trust what these people say and not scientists? Unless you've reasoned this out from scratch independently of the others who believe it, in which case fair enough.

What was his justification for her release?

Fucking hell.

Nah I'm trying to argue less on here anyway. Was just interested in his motivations for believing what he does. I agree with what you've said here btw, but also can't help vaguely admiring someone prepared to go against the grain on conventional thought - as long as it's well reasoned.

I don't even entirely disagree with the premise that we're all schooled in a certain direction as far as thoughts go, and that deviating from this and arriving at our own conclusions is important. I just don't get why this issue is the hill to die on, so to speak. But maybe that's what makes your position genuine.

I wasn't here last time wolfy was commenting and he's the first flat earther I've ever had any dialogue with I dunno what the Fish' excuse is though.

So you don't believe this due to the need to justify some manner of shady global conspiracy seeking to protect its own interests, you actually consider that the science alone isn't sufficient to support the 'spherical globe in space' argument. You have no agenda beyond this, you just don't believe what we're told. I actually consider that to be somewhat brave but it would also depend on how important this stuff is to your sense of self. Does this stuff define you, or is it just something you believe while living an otherwise entirely standard life?

I guess the question I'd pose is why would "they" lie about this?

Is that legit? Brilliant if so

Interesting point, well made

She was never going to avoid looking her age for ever. Has a distinctly witch like look to her now. Should just accept it and age gracefully, with some dignity.

Brilliant from Thornberry - Fallon is a total lightweight by the looks of it but she mullered him there

When was it confirmed that we have 100m to spend?

Big risk for him as well... where does he go from being fired midway through the season in the championship?

For claeity, is it still the Tories being negligent?

Labour should absolutely hammer them for that. Open goal. Whether Corbyn has it in bin to do so is another matter.

...ew.