Rayvin

TBF to KD, he said 'a lot of British squaddies'. Think that's where the confusion has come in. But anyway, you do have to be fantastically ignorant to believe in racial supremacy in any form - it's actually pretty disappointing to think that the army doesn't do a better job of weeding this out. You'd think plenty of officer level types would be aware of this sort of undercurrent. I suppose what's more worrying is that you could argue (as I think KD is) that we're just normalising the idea of shooting and blowing up people through our foreign policy initiatives. State sanctioned terrorism as far as the civilians in the middle east are concerned. That might have the knock on effect of making it easier (psychologically) for such people to commit atrocities over here, if they have Neo-nazi ties. I guess we should be grateful that this was all exposed before anyone was hurt at least, makes a nice change.

The young right wingers in this country (centre right) have set up an opposition campaigning group to Momentum "Activate" is the Tory equivalent now. Unfortunately however, they've encountered schism two weeks after starting up, with the pro-Rees Mogg contingent having taken the group's Twitter account, and the pro-May contingent having gained the Facebook account. Both have reported each other to the police as 'hackers' and in amongst the drama, a whatsapp group conversation has been exposed wherein some of these young Tories talk about gassing chavs. All in all, a perfect homage to the Tories

Scary to consider that such people will have presumably had access to military grade weaponry as well. Possibly trained to kill. Army trained nazis are the last thing we need.

Do you ever worry about left wing political correctness and identity politics being a gateway drug to Stalinism or Maoism? Mao killed 10+ million people of course. Ideas and discussions aren't the problem. The problems are the media narratives that are trying to use these ideas to assert control over Western populations and to turn them away from actions that are really in their best interests. The reason all this shit has come up, is because the economy has tanked. And the economy tanks, because stupid people vote for things that aren't in their favour, because of nonsense like which ethnic group they belong to and which ethnic groups might be trying to get into the country. All the while, very rich people of a range of different ethnicities, all get richer. The trick with all of this is to be able to look at the arguments for what they are, but not to sign up wholesale for the side they come from. Each argument on its merits. Or at least that should be the way to do it. The reality now, IMO, is that we DO need a narrative to turn this around, and that this narrative has to group together white working class people, and ethnic minority working class people - and join their interests with middle class people. I don't think we've reached the endgame on Trump, and I'm not 100% sure he's made things worse yet. The risk with Trump, IMO, is that he manages to persuade people that the reason he's failed to make anything better is because of Congress - and then he gets a second term to 'drain the congress swamp'. But I just don't see it, I think he's already a busted flush, and I think people will be looking for new answers to the same problems in 4 years time. He's warmongering more than I thought he would, I've conceded on that point already. What we need is for the left to properly take hold of the Democrats. Unofortunately, they seem to be failing to do so - and thus, we might re-run this in a few years time. White Americans are going to become a minority by 2050 I think I read. That's loads of time to whip up a racial shitstorm. The left really needs to sort itself out and get ready to confront this. BTW - you might well be right in everything you're saying, I'm just throwing down my full position at this point. I'm open to being wrong as ever.

Interesting. But the thing is, these 'lost people' on the right have put up a siege mentality. A single person trying to reason with them is unlikely to yield any results. You need to genuine, earnest leftwing movement which can reach out and make a solid case for improving their lives, whilst at the same time refusing to abandon minorities in the same economic category. Individual people aren't going to be able to make the change, aside from forcing the left to wake the fuck up. EDIT - I actually think Bernie Sanders could have done this.

Well there you've hit on my whole concern about the entire political climate. More or less, anyway. The advantage with Trump (and I said this repeatedly in the build up to his election) is that he's far right and incompetent. If they had someone far right and capable, that would be a serious problem. Peterson isn't going to end up in a similar position though. For one thing he's Canadian, and Canada is one of the most left wing states going. The worst you could say, I think, is that he might be a gateway drug for people who then end up on the far right. And he might well be. But I don't think he's trying to be that, and the only reason that this discussion is happening at all is because of the drive to reduce so much of the political dialogue to racial problems. The left genuinely needs to build a political movement around economic progress, and the longer it fails to do so, the more people will be pushed aside. That's not Peterson's fault - he's just talking about what he believes in. The only reason he's relevant at all is that the left has not made any response to his arguments (that I've seen), and that this therefore becomes a stick to beat us with. Rebel media are slightly to the right of the mail, according to mediafactbias. I wouldn't worry too much more than you would for the Daily Mail being involved itself. Having said all of that, I don't really care about his affiliations because I'm not investing anything in the guy on a personal level. I just think his arguments are logical.

I've never bothered to entertain anything Rebel Media says because they're an online Daily Mail. I wasn't of the opinion that they were advocating for totalitarian, fascist dictatorships based on ethnic purity, but, as with the Mail, it wouldn't actually surprise me that much. That said, I dunno what you want me to say. I've listened to the guy speak, and I've listened to his arguments. Most of what he talks about - and I mean, like, 80% - has nothing to do with race or gender or anything. It's mostly about combating social anxiety, depression, the problems of the modern world. He's well worth listening to in that regard. The stuff that is to do with race and gender isn't 'we need to purify America for the white race', it's talking about how white privilege is a destructive concept, etc. In my view, he talks a lot of sense. I'd be more interested in understanding what you think based on what he says, than the idea of damning him by association. What does appear clear, fwiw, is that he's being sucked into this fucking stupid culture war. And as ever, my view remains that the left will lose politically, the longer this goes on. I've noticed the Guardian has started publishing articles saying as much, and encouraging dialogue. I guess they're nazis too now.

I haven't really followed any of this recently - link?

my bad.

Actually not a bad post that one, even if it is rivalling Fish for wordiness. At least it's a new perspective.

I suppose that's possible.

It was detected because it triggered a 6.3 Richter earthquake Wolfy. How do you fake that?

I'd stick with it if it was Newcastle because I'm a fan. If it was a club I had no real link with beyond that, I'd probably look for work elsewhere.

I dont disagree that this will happen, I just don't think he'll sell unless it's totally on his own terms. The rest of his business empire is run in the same way. I reckon the debt needs to go first. The 'market' must be starting to wonder when the PL bubble will burst, and paying over the odds for us probably doesn't sound like as enticing an option as we'd want.

Haunt him how? This is the thing ffs - he owns the club in financial terms - which in this day and age is literally the only thing that matters. This is a man who has survived the press hounding him for underpaying his workers, for throwing up in fireplaces, for falling asleep in meetings, and for being an all round bellend. What more can the press do now? They've got nothing in their arsenal to compare to that unless it turns out he killed someone. And even fucking then he wouldn't have the club taken away from him. The only way he goes, is if we pay off the fucking debt. And it'll take years of all of us being shafted to do it. The more we squeal and resist, the more he'll dig his heels in. We're better off just throwing in the towel and coming back to the club in a decade to see what's left of it when he finally does fuck off.

There is nothing that can be done though. At all...

Long term sure, short term not sure. Assuming they don't go down maybe

Do West Ham look all that appealing though? They're more likely to be in a relegation fight than we are at this point...

We looked decent against Spurs until Shelvey was sent off.

I agree with that assessment but was just expecting this anyway this season. Think we'll end up 14/15th personally.

Maybe, but we beat West Ham without him (granted at home). Optimism probably is misplaced though.

Suppose so but I do believe the team is better than we're giving it credit for, assuming we can avoid people being suspended. Chronically lacking in quality in depth, but the first team is ok IMO. It is what it is. Rafa hasn't quit yet though.

As ever, I'm very prepared to accept that Charnley has failed us in negotiations in some form. I do wonder about how much money was available. Moreover, we spent £12m on Murphy - I mean that's fine, but not if he's one of two significant buys for the summer. We could have spent that on Gibbs or someone useful.