Rayvin

So he comes out and says that, and then May turns around and claims she has found a way to make it all work - so she then looks like actually, she does have answers. Corbyn is treated with suspicion by Leavers because it looks like he was making a play to reverse Brexit, whereas May has them firmly back on side again. The alternative option being he waits for her to fail to sort this out in any significant way, and when certain that this is the case, goes in with the line you're suggesting it. I just think it's still premature at this point, we don't know how things will look in a day or so.

There's good evidence to suggest that Labour have weak leadership. I'm not denying this. All I'm saying is that personally, if it were me, I still wouldn't have showed my hand. Things can still get worse for the Tories, unless you think they're on the cusp of turning the whole thing around.

The leaders of Scotland, Wales and London were calling to remain in the SM/CU to embarrass the PM. It's not the watershed moment and you know it. If the PM forces it through, then these threats actually have weight, then we have the time to strike. As it stands, Corbyn could throw the kitchen sink at her here, only for today's discussions with the DUP to somehow resolve the situation and the whole effort to be wasted.

He'll see himself as a pressure release then. Flatly wrong though - the pressure in the UK was anti-establishment, not racist change. He morphed something potentially positive into something horrifying. Still though, the man is shameless - hardly likely to come out and say anything genuinely self-reflective. Still fighting his war at the moment.

They'd also immediately polarise people into Leave and Remain camps again, and I'm really not sure that enough Leavers have swung to Remain, for that to work in our favour.

Still disagree, there's a better moment around the corner IMO. I mean look, I've already said it could just be weak leadership - I conceded the possibility of that quite readily around the same time as the post you're quoting. Having said that, what happened yesterday wasn't "Brexit falling apart". If May genuinely gets herself into a position where she's ousted from Number 10, then I think they should turn the guns on Brexit itself. But if they had come along yesterday (and Corbyn did make a statement yesterday, not that the press really cared) and gotten fully involved, they would have been asked the following question: What would you do differently to resolve the Irish border issue then? The only possible answer to that is "stay in the single market". Too early for that to come out, IMO.

We have no idea what it should be, we can only say what it is. And it is better than being 20 points behind going into the last GE.

Good grief... I mean I just struggle to conceive of a government being this shit but...

This is kinda what I mean though, everything that has happened so far will have been well fucking anticipated by the Tories. Let's not start celebrating until they're actually caught off guard.

Labour 8 points ahead of the Tories according to a Mail on Sunday Survey: http://survation.com/labour-extends-polling-lead-8-points-conservatives/

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/937694603037364224 This is the main bit.

Actually, there are some commentators claiming that this is what has happened, with help from the EU. Can't link it easily because I don't use Twitter, but this guy basically: https://twitter.com/bopanc?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2Flive%2F2017%2Fdec%2F04%2Ftheresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live

I so badly want to believe this is true, but I expect in a months time we'll have moved onto the next shambles as they will have somehow muddled through this

If they can get the narrative right, who knows. People are so desperate to be proven 'right' about Brexit, that enough fuckwits might swallow it just so that they don't have to admit their stupidity.

Unless they agree a deal with the EU that, for all intents and purposes, looks like the Single Market and Customs Union, just under another name. That's the plan, I'm increasingly sure of it. Whether such a thing is remotely possible, is what the government's viability will hinge on.

Think you guys are hoping for too much... EDIT - although I note Sturgeon has made her bid for Scotland to stay in. The thing is, I just don't see the Tories blindly walking into this without a plan.

The whole thing is a fucking disaster for the NE though.

I genuinely think it's this: The government is pinning everything on the trade deal, which it expects will make this concern obsolete somehow. The single market in all but name, I think.

That's the gist of it tbh Also a lot of "You can't trust the Tories, always looking after their rich friends", "This will break up the union!" Finally starting to cotton on maybe. I do think Scotland will go if NI gets what it looks like it's getting.

In positive news. The Mail's comment section is fucking furious.

I've been waiting on the Tories to collapse for months, and they're just not doing it. They won't let this become a GE issue, I think they'd sooner turn Brexit around.

They'll not just have walked into a GE man, they'll have a plan.

So the idea seems to be that the Tories are confident that they'll get a customs agreement that looks near as dammit to the single market and that none of this will matter as a result. What the fuck man, what a colossal waste of time this is.

If true, you would think Scotland would be all over it.