Rayvin

I don't make big deals of any of this I don't even know what you mean by that Parky, but I am outraged, and demand an apology. I don't see how I can continue debating such things with you in future... you've ruined everything!

So is this a storm in a teacup from which nothing meaningful will come, or is this a big deal?

The government's line of defence from JRM: Jacob Rees-Mogg, a Conservative, says is is concerned about the government honouring parliament. If these impact assessments did not exist, the government did not have to publish anything, did it? Davis agrees. Q: So the government has generously gone beyond what was required? Davis accepts that. Rees-Mogg says the government looked at the wording of “an incompetent motion” and did its best to comply. Davis accepts that.

Right but this was discussed and so on some weeks ago. Why is it only now that Davis is saying the impact assessments don't exist? This means he lied, right? Like, in a big way. Or am I missing something?

Wait what, I thought that they had two binders worth of impact assessments, but that they simply couldn't share them with anyone...?

I love how these decade old problems are now being 'solved' by Trump having no tact at all.

My bad. In which case the offer seems more fair.

The club's debt to Ashley is £180m or something right? So she's basically offered him £70m for the club. I mean... I don't want to say that's derisory, but it really looks it. You'd think the full weight of the playing staff in terms of market value would exceed £70m.

Not going to happen. £250m is fucking miles away unless Ashley has climbed down significantly. Was a nice thought while it lasted.

I doubt their entire team comes to more than about £30m in terms of actual value at this point. Wonder how much the stadium is...

I'm not saying a lot of them will tbf, but I think enough disaffected working classes can be won back here. I genuinely think the Tories consider Labour to be a serious threat now. And the more I think about it, the more I think that Corbyn himself, his existence, is what is forcing the Tories into hard Brexit. Depressing thought for me personally!

I dunno, I've seen some comments suggesting they will...

Hopefully, Corbyn's Labour. Since it does have anti-establishment credentials, and it does have something to offer people beyond a version of Brexit that can't be realised. This is literally the only thing the Tories have to sell now as far as I can see.

I don't think that's the same as coming out and advocating for SM access, although it's laying the groundwork. Personally I would argue that they're tightening the screw but still leaving themselves room to back down if May manages to pull something off. If she fails, we might see Labour go fully forward on SM access.

Again, just going off the Daily Mail, the levels of hate they're getting from people who voted Tory is a sight to behold...

Labour are officially backing SM access?

Yes but can you see why they're saying they do? And why they can't back down from that without undermining their entire government?

The mandate is a separate issue - the mandate is what they're using to legitimise what they're doing, and it comes from the 2017 election rather than the referendum. "85% of elected MPs came from parties backing leaving the EU" is being trotted out a lot. If the Tories could climb down from this, which in fairness, Labour would have to do also, I think they would. They can't because the public isn't ready yet, IMO. Still need more things to go wrong - problem for them is that these things will go wrong on their watch.

47% of them, apparently, put down immigration as their leading reason for voting out. I dunno, I get what you're saying I suppose but it feels like it's the main issue to me. Why do you think the government is refusing to turn this around then?

Right but you can see why a government seeking legitimacy would use this. I'm not saying I agree with them, I'm saying that I can see why they have nowhere else to go.

No it isn't. The 'people' want an end to freedom of movement. That's the thing this all hinges on. Staying in the single market, the Norway model, is an option that even Norway warned us was pointless.

Was that not their manifesto position?

I don't see how that's a hope or prayer tbh. I see that as the worst possible position we could be in. If the Tories could climb down from this without risking a generation in the electoral wilderness, I think they would do so.

I genuinely think that's because they face electoral annihilation with any other political line. Single Market access makes the whole thing pointless, and exposes them entirely.

Davis challenged to give MPs a free vote on single market access. Davis claiming that the government was elected on a mandate to take the UK out of the SM. That's clear to me actually. They can't let soft brexit happen now. To get to that point, we need the government to collapse, and for the country to go back to a GE.