Rayvin

I cannot stand Charnley. Saying this for the third transfer window in a row.

...I love Marmite.

Marmite A product that no one outside of the UK can understand why we eat.

I don't think that's him wanting rid of the guy, I think that's just him doing it his way without any compromise.

Troops is absolutely convinced that Ashley is trying to force Rafa out here

I think manufacturing still dwarves financial services despite what you hear (or it did last i checked, but it's been a few years now). The City is important but it's not actually responsible for carrying the economy as much as it's given credit for.

I guess then we come back to the issue for me again - they need a platform about as left wing as the one they have now or we're doomed to keep seeing people's lives turn to shit. Well, unless the centre goes radical anyway. Labour would only gain in the opposite direction once. Alienating their base will last more than just one GE - as I said in my first post today. It's not going to happen. Corbyn needs to actually fail at something tangible to be ousted. I still think it all hinges on Brexit and the Tories fucking up.

I suspect if Labour went Remain, UKIP would rally. But other than that I would argue the Tories tbh. In the last election they got 47% of C2s. 7% more than Labour. And they got 41% of DEs (Labour got 44%). So it's not exactly unheard of for this demographic to go blue.

I'm not defending him, I'm just not seeing a strategic alternative with respect of Brexit. Although tbf to ewerk, what he has posted at least potentially looks like it could form the bones of one, and is more than anyone has given me to date. It's not the full picture though, just the picture from one side. And a quick google didn't allow me to find the source of the data, so I can't look into it myself. Labour can't win without that 25% who will consider going elsewhere, but equally they can't win without the... 15%? 20%? from the Brexit side who will make the same call but from the other side. And that's assuming we don't even consider the fact that he still needs to win people over in order to actually get into power. Rock and a hard place. Also don't think it was a coup. Think the membership and people generally were just desperate for change. Corbyn didn't plan to be where he is.

Yep, that more or less maps to the number that voted Remain, so that makes sense. Would be interested to know the demographics on that though. And the stance of the 1/3 who presumably do back Brexit. It'd be strange to think that Corbyn on the one hand is an incredibly weak leader, and on the other hand, is capable of strong arming his whole party into a pro-Brexit stance against all statistical evidence to the contrary, presumably through sheer force of will.

I don't know what he meant then. But given that everyone already knows that we can leave the EU and still be in the SM, it would be a pretty shit lie. Can't imagine he's ignorant to the whole thing either but honestly, I didn't weigh in here to get into a protracted argument about Corbyn. As I've agreed before, he's not a good leader. He's also not exactly great at speaking with political skill. He does however, make statements to the press criticising government policy. That these statements aren't hugely visible is more to do with the press than him, since they control what becomes visible. He also has no real options for a Remain stance concerning Brexit, unless someone can explain to me how he does this without fundamentally abandoning the working classes.

Did he say it was technically impossible or was he just articulating that logically, the vote to leave makes no sense whatsoever on the basis of continuing SM access? Which is something I recall many of us agreeing on in the immediate aftermath of the referendum. I'm going to agree that Corbyn just isn't 'visible' enough to lead the party. He always seems to be making statements on government decisions and criticising their actions, but seems to be incapable of making a big enough splash when he does so. As such, we get situations like this where Alex thinks he doesn't say anything to criticise them at all and only speaks to back Brexit. I've only ever backed Corbyn because I see him as a necessary vehicle for change, I've no strong attachment to the guy beyond that believe it or not. if they replace him with someone who keeps the policies and general thrust of what he was aiming for, but is more visible, then great.

Here's Corbyn yesterday criticising the reshuffle and saying that the government's policies are killing people: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-cabinet-reshuffle-lacklustre-pr-exercise-a8148681.html Curious that the only part of his statement that anyone bothered to pay any attention to was the single market stuff though...

My position has consistently been that Labour have no electorally sound way of reversing the Brexit decision unless the Tories fuck something up so badly that there is a big enough swing in popular opinion. If you guys think they can strong arm the electorate into a remain position at a new election, then fair enough. I suspect they'd lose on that platform as it stands though, and would likely be damaged by their attempts to 'undermine' democracy with their working class voters. Rock and a hard place. To make that platform work, they would have to basically abandon reaching out to the working classes, and focus on the middle classes. Moreover, they'd have to try to work out how many of the 'pro-Remain' middle classes feel strongly enough about the issue to abandon the LDs or Tories if that's the way they've historically voted. If they managed this, and won an election by pulling over pro-Remain Tories and LDs, whilst at the same time offering sweeteners to some of the working classes to try to make Brexit a secondary issue for them (a challenge in itself, since it would be one message for the middle classes and another for the working classes), then they would suffer at the following election when the single issue middle class voters, having secured Remain, go back to the LDs or Tories. And the working classes who they alienated to get Remain through, don't forgive them. As I've said many times, I'm happy to hear a cogent and strategic assessment of how they can make this work though? I've stuck to my position on this basically because no fucker has given me one And yes - it is entirely possible that they haven't put this much thought into it. Although given that I've put about an hour's thought into it across several weeks on here, and come up with the above, I'd be rather surprised if NOBODY at Labour had done the same thing. You never know though.

Called it.

Team in the current top 6, away from home. Nailed on.

There is no way Ashley cares that much about what any of us think. His mindset for this window will 100% be the same as the last, he doesn't need a scapegoat. If we're not buying, it will be because we don't have the funds. He's not putting his hands into his pockets for this, he's said it before. I don't think his strategy has changed at all. If the money is there, we'll spend it. If it isn't, we won't. We may need to sell before anything happens. Maybe we've got about £15m to spend but they figure if they can sell Mitro then they can get a striker worth about £25m instead. Who knows. But it definitely isn't Ashley trying to establish a narrative about the club sale not going through (he doesn't need to justify that to anyone, what can any of us possibly say?) or trying to force Rafa out on the sly when he's only got 6 months left on his contract anyway.

It sounds as if Rafa himself doesn't get involved in the transfers though. All he seems to do is identify targets and then leave it to Charnley. Seems a bit illogical, because surely there is a need to triage resources a bit, and you would think only Rafa can judge that, but who knows. Him not knowing the budget doesn't necessarily mean nothing is happening...

I'd settle for that tbh. It's a foundation to build on properly.

I reckon it'd put us into touching distance of Liverpool tbh.

As for FFP, I thought the deal was to assess losses over a rolling 3 year period...? So we could spend like crazy in one season as long as we made it back in the next two, I guess.

I didn't realise you guys were actually fighting tbh, I actually think you both have a certain comedic chemistry. I think you both have each other's numbers tbh, quite possibly literally

I thought Sunderlands issue was as much about financing their external debt as it was about FFP. And didn't the football league punish QPR for overspending?

Genuinely don't think Ashley needs to 'force Rafa out' at this point. He could quite happily just wait for his contract to run down at the end of the year and close things down then.