Rayvin

It's an entirely hypocritical position. They seem to be asking for the government waste money on a more expensive British option on the one hand, whilst on the other demanding that they curtail benefits and cut down investment into public service. Actually tbh I'm not sure about that last bit, I could just about imagine that the DM come down on the side of public sector workers on some things.

17.4 million at least.

I remember that Gloom would make this argument a lot - the media just following the trends of how people are. I can see that side of it for sure, and maybe it's like a vicious and expanding circle to a degree. You start off with some racist, nationalistic fuckheads - the newspaper panders to them - and then more people are 'won' over by increasingly sensationalised bullshit. What makes me think that the media don't lead as much now though, is the prevalence of relatively far right (alt right) platforms and individuals now beginning to gain traction with the mainstream. Conventional media has clearly enabled them and set the scene in people's minds for a conversion further to the right, but I think control may be out of their hands to some degree now. The Daily Mail, IMO, only really speaks to old people who don't like to be challenged, and stupid people, who don't like to be challenged. I doubt anyone of any intellectual capacity considers it to be anything other than unmitigated shite.

It's pointless to even say it these now because it's such a cliché, but honestly, i fucking hate the daily mail.

Thin end of the wedge with Obama though, same as with his Presidential proclamations.

Does he have any actual advisors anymore? It's actually bizarre that what we're getting is Trump Unchained. You'd think people would be keeping him under control to some degree, and yet...

You know me too well. I mean I read RTG quite a bit because schadenfreude is something that gives my life meaning, but I can see that the number of 'mag' threads has fallen off a cliff. They've retreated into the 6 in a row as the final hope to ward of abject misery and humiliation. In reality they would dread playing us now, because if we played them 10 games in a row, we would win all 10. They will be keenly aware of this.

I really dont think many of them do care, i think they just want to defend themselves with something.

He has been gone too long tbf - wonder if the deep state caught up with him.

In fairness, a trade war is unlikely to kill as many people as an actual war. Not sure on the Trump Administration's body count so far, but it can't actually be that high to date...

Seems to be a clamour for Peter Reid whenever I read those sorts of thread.

Um... not sure about that. We have a right fucking time getting our overseas supplies through customs. Similarly we have challenges in selling books into places like Canada, Brazil, Turkey, Russia because their import tariffs are fucking mental. Brazil is something like 50% of the value of the goods, and Canada is 30% (I think) for anything valued over $11. And these are academic books. Education... you'd think countries around the world would be falling over themselves for this sort of thing. The Americans are quite good for this, they're 0% on educational materials, but everyone else represents varying degrees of challenge.

Tbh CT I'm not blind to that realisation. In fact I was just reading through RTG's thread on these developments as they have a wider range of spread in terms of Leavers and Remainers. From what I can tell though, the Leavers look decidedly nervous about that was announced, and there seems to be some sneaking acceptance that they may be about to get shafted. They're being defiant of course, but reading between the lines, you can see the caveats and 'get out clauses' being put into the posts. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that surely, the NI issue can be resolved. But has anyone in government said anything remotely constructive on this point yet? I'm not going to risk a good outcome and may head to the EU before the UK crashes out, but it's still encouraging.

Who'd have thought that the Good Friday Agreement would come to be one of the most important political documents for this country across two different events in two different centuries. Funny how the world works.

Paul Joseph Watson parody. Love it.

I think this basically chimes with what I've said but with some wider implications concerning Britain's view of itself. Agree with that bit too.

Thanks lads, for the breakdown. Does feel like the Tories are just trying to drip feed the bitter truth that very little is going to change at the moment. There's always the chance they'll pull something horrifying in the end, but I guess self interest might prevent that.

So we're currently fairly optimistic, right? On the grounds that the only viable alternative to broadly remaining in the same position as we are, is total freefall with no deal?

I see - I don't mind if they fudge FOM as long as the overall outcome remains broadly the same as the status quo. Let's hope the Irish really do save us here.

Is there any realistic chance of Freedom of Movement remaining?

Ok thanks. The first bit looks totally impossible to agree to since 'signing trade deals with non-EU countries' is one of the main points of this farce. And agreed on the second one. So we may as well stay in the Single Market, arguably? We'd just have to accept freedom of movement.

There is no way we're dividing GB and NI. Surely?

Is that actually true though? Are we actually going to be in the single market? Will freedom of movement remain in NI (and therefore UK)?

I mean our record win is 13-0 right? I find that interesting to think about every now and again If someone told me that we had a 10 game win streak against Middlesbrough, I don't think I'd care at all. It's like one of those facts they put in pre-match rambles to try and give a sense of history to the whole affair.