Rayvin

Let me ask you, honestly - is the fallout from the CA stuff going to change anything at all? Cos from where I'm sitting, it's gonna result in fuck all. It'll hang around for a bit and then be usurped by the next big scandal that won't actually affect the established political actors in the least because the press are more concerned about drummed up charges of anti-semitism than they are about anything remotely important. I don't care at all about the CA thing because fucking nothing will be done about it. But yes - Corbyn should be raising it. If nothing else, it's a line of attack. Will him raising it change anything though? Will it fuck.

I dunno, because he seems to prefer focusing on issues close to him rather than the latest outrage? I agree it's a missed opportunity that exposes his lack of political savvy.

Yep. I still hope Thornberry gets a shot at it, and if her policy positions are broadly consistent with his, I'll vote for her.

Not disagreeing that he's weak, or that what anti-semitism there is will come from far left conspiracy nuts. But I don't believe for a second that he is anti-semitic. And I believe this is a manufactured outrage that they've sat on for maybe years, waiting for a moment to hit him with it.

Ah so you're insinuating I'm racist now because I looked at that mural and saw neo-liberal white guys oppressing the world instead of Jewish guys. My anti-establishment bias has presumably gotten the better of me with this as honestly, that's all I saw. But given that Corbyn has a similar anti-establishment bias, I can see why he ended up in the position he did.

You know the outrage is being written by anti-Corbyn fanatics, right? I don't care who it was written by. The logic stands.

Why is it headlining with all the other shit that's going on? There's an agenda man, they're just trying to pull him down with the only guns left in the arsenal that might work on him - the identity politics howitzers. Aided and abetted by the 'centre left' who 1) don't give a fuck about anti-semitism unless they can weaponise it - I note with interest that fuck all was done about this wave of anti-semitism in Labour in the pre-Corbyn era - and 2) seem to be landing the blows against Corbyn that the Tories can't. Poor judgement maybe but I ended up thinking the same thing as he allegedly did, and I'm still struggling to see how the people who don't look at large nosed bankers and see 'Jews' are the ones who are racist. As you said before, I guess I'm just not 'educated' enough with racist tropes.

I think this section from the article I linked sums it up for me: Now as I say, this whole business has been a nonsense. Even if there were genuine anti-Semitic content in the mural, so what? It was years ago, and it was very clear that Corbyn’s comment was not meant as a defence of anti-Semitism. Now, how is a passing comment that Corbyn made six years ago on a bit of bizarre artwork suddenly so important that it takes priority over the Local Elections, over Conservative laundering of Russian finance, over Tory and pro-Brexitgroups getting potentially-illegal help from Cambridge Analytica, the fantastic fraudulence of Jeremy Hunt’s untrue ‘pay-rise’ for NHS workers, the suspicious-looking miracle of only three people getting exposed to a lethal nerve agent in Salisbury and all of them so slightly that somehow none of them are dead almost a month later, the never-ending Brexit chaos, rampant child poverty… ? Good grief, I reckon even the ball-tampering scandal by the Australian Test Cricket team should rate as more of a priority than this!

I don't think leavers give a shit about this really. I could see some left wingers branding it imperialistic but the only possible issue that the right could have with it is that they might end up being told what to do by 'foreign' people if the EU actually becomes a federation of states. Objectively, a federation of states would be ideal for the EU, to protect our interests in a time of super states and economic wars.

Just gonna leave this in here as it at least sums up my thinking on that mural: http://guerillawire.org/politics/oh-all-right-lets-talk-about-that-mural-then/

Can't fault that like, taking the piss out of themselves Fair enough.

Sigh.

OK look, I just went and researched it myself - they're not specific individuals, and the artist claims to have depicted white and Jewish bankers as a criticism of the class system etc etc, but that it wasn't intended to be antisemitic. I rather suspect that it was intended to be antisemitic based on that comment, as I don't see the need to have 'white and jewish'. Why not just 'bankers'. If there was a single Star of David on there, I would probably concede this point. But to me, they just looked like rich white men running the world and crushing the rest of us. Does it make me anti-semitic that I haven't assumed these men were Jewish?

Well I haven't noticed. I can see the references to the Illuminati, freemasons and the NWO but that's not a Jewish specific phenomenon. Who are the men depicted?

Wouldn't Parky just have backed the antisemite angle and said it was true? I'm asking for someone to explain to me if those men are actually meant to be Jewish. Cos honestly, it might just be that I'm checking on my phone or whatever, but they just look like rich white guys to me.

...yeah if cynicism is all we have going on as evidence of antisemitism here I'm going to ignore it.

Yeah I wouldn't mind him going as long as the party remained on the left. If they go back to the centre they lose my vote but I had made peace with that after the Miliband farce so it's not hugely significant for me I suppose. More concerned about my principles than his.

I dunno tbh, he must be sick of his MPs running to the guardian and bitching about things by now. Maybe its the timing? Local elections around the corner etc. Maybe there is a tougher line on this now. At the end if the day, on the face of it, its reasonable to expel someone who defies the party line. If Smith thinks it unfair because of Abbot, then I'll accept that it was. If he says nothing, then there's probably something else going on that we can't see.

Ok i had no idea what was wrong with that at first. Wealthy white guys playing monopoly on the backs of the poor and minorities. Sounds about right and is totally standard fare for the current art scene. Then it turns out that they are meant to be wealthy Jewish guys? And then we have antisemitism in the mix, and cardinal sins being committed. Curious though, are the individuals portrayed specific people or just random stereotypical 'jews'. If specific people, are they all Jewish? Are they actually wealthy white guys who made money off the backs of the poor? Need more info really.

Didnt he write it in the Guardian? Did she, or was hers an off the cuff remark?

Brave man. RIP.

Why is him sacking Smith a bad thing? I'm not really following tbh, it's not a challenge, I'm genuinely curious.

Fucking disgraceful. I genuinely can't believe the Europeans were even saddened by Brexit, they must be desperate to be shot of us.

I do have a broad spectrum of beliefs. Don't remember denigrating women like, unless you believe feminism = women.

Why is the British option so much more expensive anyway? Surely it's not long for this world if it can be undercut so much by this French manufacturer. Those 40 countries will, you would think, go elsewhere.