Rayvin

Rationally, from a business perspective, you must be right. I think I saw something about him needing to be repaid if the club gets back to the PL in 5 years (which if you think about it, is almost an incentive for them to delay for year 6). But maybe Short does actually just like the club, or does actually recognise that his reign was an unmitigated disaster. Stranger things have happened.

His statement said something like "I'm leaving the club debt free". I think it's crazy but I don't see how we can spin that any other way than "I have paid off the debt".

It's in the interests of the incoming party to be presented in the most favourable light as well. And certainly for the immediate future, even with the debts cleared, they're going to have to roll their sleeves up and cut costs. There's still an age of austerity ahead of them. The problem they've got, I would guess, is that if it goes to shit again - there is no way that these guys will be able to save them. And sure, getting out of League 1 should be easy enough - but from the Championship on the basis of only spending what you earn, whilst also competing with clubs wielding parachute payments and the like..? yeah, no way. They're not coming back up to the PL unless they pick up a very good manager.

The state of this thread now mind... HMHM will hit the roof. He'll need the table throwing emoji...

I don't think there is a sleep one. There's one for throwing a table in anger though: (/>.<)/ _l__l_ I'm done now, don't worry.

Needless to say, -.- is supposed to look like someone who is sighing and disappointed with something, rather than a Chinese person

I constantly have to check my posts in here to make sure I don't start using those things as they are very definitely not TT approved The number of times I've wanted to type -.- at CT...

XD

Is every thread in the forum going to be transformed into a political showdown

not addicted at all then.

I'll say one thing for spacey, he's certainly created activity on here I can't keep up with all the posts atm.

Yeah I don't know, but the Guardian made the claim - that's all I meant: But the leadership will now have to face the tension between its strongly pro-remain rank and file membership, its largely pro-remain MPs and the policy consequences of remaining in any arrangement with Europe such as the EEA, which limits its plans for greater state involvement in the economy.

Well, that or Brexit itself. Although tbh CT, how has the Remainer revolt fucked the country? What has happened because of Remainers that has made the situation worse?

Whether this vote has any consequences for the Tories, I'm not sure. I'm tempted to say it doesn't really since their position on this is actually clear. If Corbyn joins the government in opposing the single market however, Labour are dead. If he can make a compelling case for staying in by pointing the finger at the Tories and noting how poorly this has been handled (and I really think a narrative can be forged around that point given how woolly all the solutions put forward so far have been) then he will win the backing of the majority of his party, and unite the centrists and the leftists within Labour around a single cause. The membership will back him comfortably, the local elections seem to show that the collapse of UKIP has sent people to the Tories anyway so it's hard to argue that he even has much to gain there. The only thing I noticed when reading up on this is that a number of his policies would be difficult to achieve under EU rulings (state interference in the economy, etc). Maybe that's in his mind - but it isn't worth the collapse of everything else, party and country alike.

I know. I'm just saying that when he doesn't, that's it for his movement.

Nice! Stardew is a time sink but I have found it addictive Obviously Zelda is amazing. Enjoy!

@ChezGiven is back?

So the Lords has forced the government into a vote on the single market. That's good, it'll impose some backbone on all involved. It also means Labour's strategy of fudging the issue is dead once the vote occurs. I think my position on this now is that if Corbyn can't whip Labour into voting for the single market, he'll lose what support I have continued to give. As much as I love a number of his policies, the EU really is the line in the sand, and the single market is our last hope of recovering something from this. It will split the membership and the whole movement will fall apart. Honestly, I think his only option now is to go all in on the single market. As for the Tories, I assume they're going to vote out of it - so we'll come down to a straight run off between how many pro-Remain Tory rebels there are, versus the number of pro-Leave Labour MPs.

I dont know enough about it. I'm not one of those nazi spotting leftwingers. Having said that, Fist seems well informed about this and he is actually one of the people whose opinions i have a lot of respect for on here.

Ok I missed the middle section of this thread - what the actual fuck That 10 point evisceration was a highlight Having said this, I don't think spacey is a nazi. Misguided maybe, but not a nazi. And I would know (on both accounts, I hear you roar).

Not bald either

Theresa May is the least competent politician of our age, possibly in all of history.

Are the other Tories as complacent as you? This bodes well, if so. I mean what harm could thousands of motivated young people with loads of free time to go out canvassing possibly do? I can sort of respect the idea of disliking Momentum as a 'far left, radical movement', but given the efficiency with which they took over Labour, I don't know if I would consider them to be ineffective.

The argument isn't over though. The argument will continue until someone comes up with a better option for how we can grow in the future, than staying in the EU. You must realise that in 20-30 years time, we're going to do this again, and we'll vote back in again. There is no better alternative to being in the EU - certainly not that has been presented so far.

We're in trouble then.