Rayvin

Ah, so history won't treat me kindly I have never voted for a government that won, but somehow, this is all my fault. Utter bollocks.

I'm saying there's nothing he can do until it all falls apart. The problem with that option is that it may not fall apart. If you listen to certain leave voters, they absolutely did vote to make the country worse off, because that was the price of freedom. You need a very compelling line on FOM to sell the Norway option.

The Norway option is Brexit in name only. It still has FOM, which IMO is the thing people will look to when judging whether or not we have actually left. Also, even Norway said the Norway option is a bad outcome - admittedly that was compared to staying in altogether, but still. Could he win a GE on a Norway model footing? I doubt it. It's depressing, but there it is.

Not sure I agree tbh. I certainly want a second referendum personally, but I don't think there's any guarantee we would win it and it would be seen as an act to try and subvert the will of the people by everyone who voted for it in the first place. So that's 17 million voters he has alienated right off the bat.

I almost certainly would have been, because pre-Corbyn I was still backing Labour to the hilt. I was disillusioned with their support for austerity, but I was always strongly pro-Labour. I don't understand why you think I wouldn't have been.

He rejected this notion I believe. Said he couldn't sign us up to an agreement in which we were a rule taker and not a rule maker. I found this a frustrating position for him to take, but that's his view, and that's where we are.

Are there votes in that, though? What if he does that and loses the working class?

Yeah honestly I think Corbyn is a halfwit, but I still admire his principles and agree with most of what he stands for. I generally just get annoyed at the media bullshit that I consistently have to take apart in order to get to a factual understanding of his position on anything. So, as much as this has turned into another Corbyn debate, all I was really saying was "Look, the media were being dishonest fucks". That no one has challenged this suggests to me that I had the right of the anti-semitism 'scandal'.

What exactly is Corbyn supposed to do about Brexit? There is nothing he can do about it. He may as well wait for everything to fall apart because whether he protests vehemently, or bides his time, the outcome is the same.

Well they did that last time, I thought it was stupid, and yet brought us into a stronger position ahead of Brexit.

I do think the media are diminished. And I think Corbyn's showing in the GE more or less underlined this point. But let's be honest, I never said that they were powerless or without the ability to influence anymore - and for the last GE, it wouldn't have taken much influencing at all, would it? You are obsessed with Brexit. With good reason - but that's basically all you care about politically, at the moment. And sure, judged on Brexit alone, I can see why you'd want Corbyn gone. But the rest of the country does not appear to be as concerned with Brexit as you are.

Doesn't seem like the problem with Labour's anti semitism is more significant than the Tories though? Why do you think the media are obsessing about it when the evidence appears to show that Labour is on a better footing with this than the Conservatives? Also, what is wrong with the statement below: "“We recognize that anti-Semitism has occurred in pockets within the Labour Party, causing pain and hurt to our Jewish community in the Labour Party and the rest of the country,”

Well, indeed. The country clearly isn't going to save itself.

Indeed, the Tories are 4 points up I believe? Still though, we have the great Brexit calamity to unfold before the next election, and if it goes down the way Renton thinks it will, the government will collapse. And really, Corbyn should win at a canter from there. Either way, what difference does it make now? He's not going anywhere and the Blairite wing of the party are bereft of ideas or vision.

So you absolve the media and indeed the voters of this? In your view, the issue is Corbyn first, despite his positive platform ahead of the GE. I can see the flaws in Corbyn, believe me. I've articulated them enough times now. I'm just not plagued with tunnel vision on the spinning of narratives.

Yes I really believe this, given the performance in the last election. With brexit, I genuinely think he is playing the hand he has to, as fucking annoying as it is to voters with brains - and the nuclear deterrent - I mean that was well discussed prior to the GE, and it did fuck all harm as far as I can see.

Yougov poll shows that since Corbyn has become Labour Leader, anti-semitic views in the party have fallen - the range of statements asked are posed in the article but just for an example: "Jews chase money more than other people" - the number of Labour respondents who agreed with this was 22% in the pre-Corbyn, New Labour era. And is now 14%. There was also a fall with the Tories - they were at 31% for the same statement and are now at 27%. The Lib Dems are about on par with Labour. https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls-show-anti-semitism-in-labour-has-actually-reduced-dramatically-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader/ So. Media shit storm blown out of all proportion to spin an anti-Corbyn narrative because it's literally the last thing anyone has to throw at him now that might stick? I think so, yes. Does anyone have any data showing that it has increased under Corbyn which would at least make a decent counterpoint? As an aside though, as much as this makes happy reading in some senses, 14% is still worryingly high. The Tories at 27% is concerning too but I don't really feel that the Tory party membership is as representative of the ordinary person as the Labour one. That a quarter of their members are anti-semites should be a surprise to no one.

I read that some time back. Good article.

This. A million times this.

Holy fuck. Just... holy fuck.

HF will be all over the accounts in due course I'm sure.

WTF did Coventry do to them exactly? @essembeeofsunderland Your time to shine.

It does. We might just have to accept that it is what it is. 90m losses for being relegated is phenomenal. So, very likely thats where all the tv money went for this season.

Aye but starting games with two water carrying donkeys is a time honoured England tradition now.

Due diligence takes about a month or so doesn't it?