Rayvin

Then fuck it, I'm sticking in for a second vote. Freedom of Movement was basically the only thing I cared about personally. If it means No Deal in the end, oh well.

Is this deal good enough that we should back it then? I mean what's happening to freedom of movement? Is that staying?

But he would be shoring up the Tories. Can he countenance that? I guess it depends whether leaving the EU is more important to him than taking the Tories out.

If he does that, he's the only principled person in the whole sorry affair. And I thought the consensus on here now was that he isn't principled at all.

Yeah it does sound like that, but we have the ability to torpedo the whole thing if it doesn't get through Parliament.

But why would he do that and make the government look like heroes?

Surely this fails Labour's 6 tests or whatever it was. And the Tories are pulling it apart as well. It'll never get through on that basis...

What happens when it doesn't get through parliament?

It's not like he did it for free though, he's been well fucking paid. Admittedly I'm tempted to say that 5m isn't a lot for them or for him, but if that's the case they should just buy him a car or a yacht or something rather than a cash bonus. I guess he has done a good job either way.

I guarantee some Americans will believe this.

A good idea tbh. Federalise while we're outside the EU and get all of that shit out of the way, and then permit our re-entry a few years later as a new state in the union. Makes me think the whole debacle might be planned tbh.

I thought this bit was particularly poignant vis-a-vis Brexit as well. "Trump and a lot of the people in his thrall are, it seems safe to say, gone. They will continue to walk among us—Trump will be in a golf cart—but they will never come back. They are somewhere else. There is nothing they are not prepared to believe if the right people say it; they will choose the right lie over any truth not just without regret but with pride."

What the actual fuck is wrong with that lad I mean ffs.

What does offend you about him then? I guess not his Brexit stance.

Starmer would walk a leadership bid on this platform IMO.

I genuinely think there would be political fallout to Labour going in strong on remain. Also, that position has done the Lib Dems no favours at all. I mean the problem here is that we'll never know, but im not convinced at all that the usual suspects from Labour, who have been suspiciously quiet themselves throughout this, Blair aside, would have made a blind bit of difference. Corbyn may well have played this in such a way that he wins power even if he can't stop Brexit. That's winning power with a "radical left wing agenda". No fucker else in Labour was going to achieve that. "As guilty as anyone" give over. You're too quick to overlook the litany of failures from centrist politicians that literally made this happen.

Something to do with kicking up a bigger fuss about the whole thing apparently. I think it's a political non starter though - letting the Tories hang themselves was the only way to go once a parliamentary vote was approved.

If Labour do manage to force a second vote and reverse Brexit, the "I told you so" posts from me will make CT's contributions look downright tolerable. Admittedly i think if it does break that way itll be an opportunism thing rather than strategic, but I'm not going to let that stand in the way of my gloating if the chances comes up.

He's still an MP isn't he? Just left the cabinet.

Oh. Sorry then, hadn't thought that one through for its local implications. How will it be bad for you? I was thinking it makes the deal being voted down more likely is all.

I am going to thoroughly enjoy watching this government come apart at the seams. Fingers crossed Arlene digs her heels in.

Yep, looks a decent night for the progressives. Might be some steam in the Corbynite style left yet.

Lost the house so presumably going to be investigated properly now at best, and at worst will find it far more difficult to do anything. Great victory apparently though.

I actually would have offered the printing bit at least but as I said, i left the business over the summer. Plenty of other printers around though.