Rayvin

The Tories whipped against No Deal tbf. Free vote, it wins more heavily.

Wait what? I'm not saying MV3 will pass. It won't. I'm saying that when it fails, the primary reason it is going to fail isn't because of the ERG - it's because most MPs are remainers. So the majority is for a softer Brexit. So her deal fails, she resigns, and then parliament can actually discuss how to proceed - something they have been unable to do for 3 years. If they can't make anything work in the 3 weeks leading up to April 12th, then I think they will back May's deal because even for Labour, it's better than No Deal. It will remain an option until the last minute.

The way I see it, May loses MV3 and resigns - Parliament then gets to have its indicative votes exercise. If they still can't come to agreement by April 12th, then they can just go with May's deal - the only reason MV3 isn't going through is that there is a majority for a softer Brexit. If they get the chance to try for it, and it doesn't stick, those same MPs aren't going to just allow No Deal when May's option remains possible.

I'm taking all of this stuff way too personally at the moment, both here and elsewhere. I probably do, on a very real level, need to stop being so angry about all of it.

Aye but Preston thinks it's no deal because he doubts MPs will compromise. I still think they might. There is an overall commons majority for some manner of soft Brexit, it just needs someone somewhere to show a bit of leadership.

That isn't tears, it's my will to live

You get rises out of me all the time, I'm amazed you aren't bored of it yet.

Yeah you have no comprehension of my life situation so this isn't really landing with me.

Well, firstly I was assuming that it was usual prices (£120 return + hotel) but secondly, it's expensive in the sense that I'm mid project and need to work tomorrow, and that not doing so will be a significant blow to my ability to finish promptly and get paid fully. But thanks for the purity test

I think they will rip it up since it isn't getting through Parliament. I don't know what the point in them agreeing to an extension only to continue to insist on May's deal would be. Nothing will cure the underlying issues that our politics and democracy is broken - nothing until everyone loses interest and moves on to the next hysteria. Possibly Corbyn might be useful for this.

Good man. I'm not I'm afraid, it's just too expensive a proposition for me at the moment. And aye, just ignore the pro-activitists.

May is the only reason we've done this can kicking bullshit though. If she's gone, as she has made clear she will be in the event of a long extension, then Parliament will actually have to come together and work this out properly. They'll do indicative votes, settle on soft Brexit, and that'll be what goes through. I'm not even sure we'll get a second referendum - but honestly I don't care that much as long as FOM remains.

She fell out with her chief whip yesterday, she might find that difficult now too. Really, she's all over the place. I don't think for a second we'll revoke A50 unless Parliament actually does think No Deal will be apocalyptic. But campaigning for it on the strongest possible terms strengthens anyone calling for a softer Brexit.

I think if there wasn't a real appetite to avoid No Deal, we wouldn't have gotten an extension - the EU have provided a 10 day extension because they still hope that Parliament might be able to unfuck this. I actually think, based on how things have developed, that May might just give in and get the long extension if MV3 fails. She didn't rule it out yesterday. And really, she's the only barrier to getting it.

Ok sure but they've also given Parliament time to kill off May and take control of the process. Horrifyingly we now need Corbyn to step up.

The EU have done us a big favour there tbh. That's actually really mature and sensible of them.

It's doing pretty well but I still think it needs to exceed 5m before anyone will really start thinking of it seriously, although I do note some journalists have raised it to, and have had it dismissed by, Theresa May.

It wasn't obvious. But nevermind I guess. I think we agree on Labour's antisemitism issue. We just don't agree on the coverage it received being proportionate. Anyway, let's not get into all that again. It's not like Corbyn is even going to survive this Brexit nightmare.

I have the feeling Gloom agrees with him but I'm honestly frustrated about it. I would much prefer everyone was calling me out for being a media conspiracy theorist with a lack of perspective, since that would actually be a viable opinion on the points I'm trying to make (as much as I would disagree), rather than an antisemite, which had nothing to do with any of the points I was trying to make except that all the fuss about it was the context. I would have made the same exact points if they had managed to get traction on a story about Corbyn secretly wanting a white genocide. Anyway, I'm going to say I suppose that if I did at some point say something that appeared antisemitic, then I had no intention of doing so and yes, of course, I'm sorry for it.

What is my constant Jew carry on, exactly? I'm eager to hear.

And? You're proud of that? Does this mean you win somehow?

There is plenty of debate on here CT, but you never actually properly address any of the points people make. I suppose your debate style is a akin to PMQs though. Shouting past your opponents and refusing to tackle anything awkward. The middle class right wingers are primarily responsible for Brexit. So if we call them racist, we're right - because they aren't voting out of concerns about their jobs. The working class I have some sympathy with. Also, who said the Tories would bring about widespread unemployment? I remember saying that they were going to cripple the country with austerity, which they did. And I remember saying that they are the party of increasing poverty, which they are. Don't remember really have a strong feeling about unemployment one way or the other because it's nigh on impossible to actually tell nowadays thanks to zero hours. Which is why, incidentally, poverty is a better marker.

https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1108740579771539456 This thread sums it all up pretty well.

I think there is some of this going on in truth - she's got the EU to come forward and start saying it's her deal or No Deal now as well. This really is now Project Fear.