Rayvin

It doesnt matter to me if it would have happened or not in terms of my faith in Corbyn. His stance so far is an absolute betrayal of the membership. I mean let's remember that 65% of Labour voters (not members) voted Remain. 65%. The membership 90% wants a second referendum. He's thrown all of that away in order to pick up the non voting malcontents who delivered Brexit to us. They aren't his responsibility though, his responsibility is Labour voters and members. It's pathetic.

It seems like this is having a positive impact on Corbyn concerning a second referendum. Not that i have any idea how such a thing might be achieved now.

The media bombard my phone every day..?

Tbh I'm not saying we give him the benefit of the doubt, I'm just saying that he's a reflection of Labour's fucking stupid Brexit stance. I mean even the ones who have a prepared answer are just talking in soundbites. One thing I will note is that I got a fucking load of PR texts from him in the run up - and heard absolutely nothing about the other guy. So this guy was at least very fucking visible to me. Not that I voted, but still.

Not going to disagree with that but for all I know that could be his first time in front of the cameras. He seemed to be panicking.

Well aye but he's a local politician. Also, honestly, I've never rated politicians as being particularly intelligent over and above say, a fair number of us on here. I daresay we could outperform them comfortably.

Nobody is telling the truth and he's a junior politician. His career would be over in a heartbeat if he started telling the truth.

He's clearly a remainer who, with the backing he has received from Momentum, is trying to find a nice way around getting out of the question. Hardly makes him an idiot, just a reflection of Labour's fucking stupid position. What he probably should have said is 'Labour's position on this has been quite clear - we want a Brexit that works for most people, and that includes a customs union. As things stand, I am very opposed to the Brexit options available as I feel that all of them will deliver a bad deal for the North East. I voted to remain in the referendum, but respect the result of the vote as long as it does not cause intense damage to the UK and on working people's lives'. Something like that anyway - but he looks new to this shit.

I'm aware, trust me.

I doubt they'll survive No Deal either tbh. If it's as bad as what we're all picturing there will be actual hell on. Incidentally, at that point we need to be consistent on a narrative - whatever you think about Corbyn's failure on this, the blame has to be fucking squarely aimed at the Tories. No negotiation on it, not 'well some of it was the EU, a lot of it was a lack of leadership from Corbyn' etc - while all true, it waters the point down. It has to be 'This is on the fucking Tories'. The left will, however, find a way to fail at controlling this narrative.

I don't think she has time to deliver the fewer red lines now though - I mean even if she did try, it's hard to imagine them being well thought through. I am staggered that anyone has ever considered the Tories to be competent at anything btw, just staggered. There needs to be some fucking honesty with the public: "This has been an unmitigated disaster, we were poorly prepared and carried everything out incorrectly. The risk now if we proceed is that there are real and serious consequences for the lives of all British people, job losses and shortages of vital products. The only responsible action for us to take here is to cancel Article 50, and then as a nation, come together and decide what it is we want to do. We agreed that Brexit needs to happen and we will honour that agreement, but the nature of the Brexit requires public input as well - we will table a referendum for soft brexit or May's deal. No deal will be taken off the table because it is too destructive. We are sorry that you have been misled about the feasibility of this endeavour in general, and ask that you accept an apology on behalf of all MPs for our failure in this regard." I think the majority of the public would get behind that, and I even ruled our Remain on the referendum ticket so that the Brexiters don't think they're being shafted.

How is Theresa May possibly going to look at presiding over No Deal and the absolute fucking hell that would produce, and think that this is worth it. She cannot be that much of a psycho. Unless she literally fucking resigns the moment her deal gets knocked on the head and fucking hell, I can almost see it actually. Her deal voted down, no deal all but a certainty, May resigns, Parliament is a shambles, we'd have... fucking who in control? Who becomes leader by default? We'd inevitably have to go for a GE at that point. You would fucking hope that Parliament would cancel A50 as a matter of national security, but do any of them have the stones to do so? That's it though tbh - I think she'll just resign if her deal doesn't go through.

Well me too but it does appear to only present two options as Starmer has said, and it's hopelessly irresponsible. The thing is as well, if we get no deal and crash out, they'll do a poll a couple of weeks later "would you prefer to be in the EU". It'll be up to 70% remain or something like that. Almost inevitably.

Is Corbyn a no deal Brexiter? I'm not sure he is you know. I've seen a lot of evidence that he's a Brexiter but nothing that he's a no deal one. He seems more adamant that no deal should be avoided than he is about anything else. I'm not saying she necessarily can, I'm saying that this appears to be her angle and that running down the clock plays into her hands.

I think the view is that Parliament becomes so desperate for something that isn't no deal, it just votes it through. NI be damned.

But her view is that if she leaves it late, people will vote for her deal because No Deal is worse. That might happen tbf although it would be an absolute disgrace.

How can Theresa May possibly be so wedded to Brexit that she would allow this to happen. How. How does she have the power to do this, what the actual fuck.

Clearly they aren't government priorities. Forcing it from the ground up seems sensible to me.

Quiet you extremist young person!

Yeah but is that coming from the left or is it coming from the resurgent right? I'm not saying you're oversensitive btw, not because youre Jewish anyway. Tbh i think you are a bit oversensitive sometimes because you work in media and become totally consumed by these breaking stories, which is why i say yeah, to politicians and journalists this seems like a big deal. To ordinary people, I just dont know. But is a rise in even left wing inspired antisemitic events comparable to the number of people in poverty or forced to become homeless. We've cut support for homeless by half and have seen the number of homeless double. No one talks about that and yet the consequences are real and unimagimably sad. So when i say antisemitism in Labour is a distraction, i dont mean it isnt a serious issue, i mean that there are really bigger fish to fry based on what i have seen the consequences to be so far. Granted if there is a widespread campaign of violence against Jewish people now underway then that changes things.

Fair point I guess. Where do they go afterwards though.

You were the one who introduced New Labour into this. I'm not saying their policies fucked the young, I actually agree that they didn't. But the generation in control then, have definitely fucked the young. New Labour or otherwise. Which was my point. I was just having a dig at Renton really, he washed his hands too readily of all of this

I need it to be visible. Was she driven out by antisemitic abuse on Twitter or in the party itself? Would be amazed if the latter although yes that would clearly signify that some people need to be thrown out. On Twitter I suspect there is no way of verifying who is saying what or if they are Labour members at all. I dont see what the deal about the Palestine lives thing is. A dog whistle I assume you're saying. The implication being that her resigning demonstrates that a blow has been struck to an oppressive regime in the middle east? I'm not sure that's antisemitic. I'm not trying not to see this by the way (you could argue I am if you see an attack on Israel to be equivalent to an attack on Jews though), but i honestly don't see any real and tangible effects that this stuff is having day to day. I can see people living and dying on the streets, I can see racism on the rise, and i can see the county being torn apart... But I can't see any actual impact that what i assume are a number of Twitter based antisemites are having on the lives of people in this country.

ouch. Although I'm curious, what ideological position prevents them from teaming up..

There was almost no difference under Miliband. Partially this was because the Tories were attempting to be the party of the centre, admittedly.