Rayvin

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/02/constituency-voted-leave-labour-oppose-brexit-sunderland Bridget on Brexit^

Why would they choose Mourinho or Wenger over Benitez. He's at least in the same tier as they are, and has arguably done a better job in recent times anyway.

Would we? I genuinely don't think it would have even occurred to me. Maybe if it was an icon like Shearer... is that how they see Henderson? He's way too beige a player for that kind of love, surely?

Why are any of them celebrating this like it's a victory for them... is Henderson the first mackem in living memory to win something? Carrick is a Geordie isn't he? It didn't register with me at all whenever he won anything.

Behold, the human cost of the Tories: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/01/perfect-storm-austerity-behind-130000-deaths-uk-ippr-report 131 000 lives, lost to austerity.

She really is.

I think you can make a decent case to them and say that your current basic + overtime affords you the standard of life you're accustomed to and while you're really keen on the position, it's going to make things difficult for you to have to tighten your belt for it. If you want to hedge, I suppose you could go in and say that you're prepared to meet them half way on the overtime, get a £3k payrise, and they can offset that against the cost of fuel for the van. Maybe you could stretch it to £4k. They're unlikely to blow you out completely over that I would think.

Do other fanbases get as excited about takeovers as we do? Is it excitement about the unlikely scenario of replicating Man City, or is it sheer desperation for losing Ashley, I wonder.

Well, fair enough - his approval ratings are lower than Obama's but only by a c.4 points. A lot will depend on who the Dems put forward I suppose.

It's hard to know which bits of this are serious info. What about that statement that it wouldn't be completed until after June 30th? That seemed depressingly feasible to me. Has all this stuff about it being this weekend come from this questionable twitter source?

I'm just saying, I think he's teflon with things like this now. Also, as an aside, I do think he's going to end this term of his presidency having killed fewer people internationally than Obama. He doesn't look poised to kick off any wars or invasions to me, for all the sabre rattling.

Clinton raised nearly double what Trump did and still lost...

You guys really don't think this will work with his voter base?

Will it matter? Mexico either sorts out illegal immigration themselves, or through tariffs they pay for his damn wall... It's not a stupid move, just a fucking bold one. I imagine he will get a lot of positive press out of this amongst his backers.

I mean they did, and then they got so close that everyone lost their shit

I wonder what kind of tearful farewell we'll get from him if it goes through It'll probably include 20% off at SD stores that will mysteriously become irredeemable at time of purchase.

They cheered one of them tbf.

I mean, we haven't won a trophy in 50 years so I could see them making an argument there with some success I have to admit like, I haven't really had an issue with City winning the league since the other clubs are at least making a go of it, but that result against Watford in the FA Cup.. Idk man, if that was ever us winning 6-0 I think i would have started to feel a bit embarassed about it. I said recently in another thread that all your money makes it hard to have strong feelings about you as a club, positive or negative. If it went the same way for us, I think it would be a disconnect from what i believe the personality of the club to be. That said, I believe that personality is summarised as one of "glorious failure" so perhaps any success would be a disconnect...

Tbf I guess i answered a slightly different question to the one you posed initially. Yes, they do need to tackle the actual issues at the same time. In fact I think that would create a much more compelling vision for remain anyway.

I figure they would address those things in the campaign leading up to the vote. This would just be for justifying the actual referendum. But either way, if i can come up with that in 5 mins, Labour high command should be able to put something solid together.

I mean, I'm not sitting here with baited breath, but I do feel that this is all pretty encouraging so far. If it falls through, it falls through - I'm not going to feel embarassed about having hoped for the best though.

Why can't we address those and stay in the EU? The narrative journey really isn't that difficult: "You voted Leave for a variety of reasons, largely coming from a decade of austerity and national mismanagement by the Tories. We understand that you feel that you have not been listened to or represented within politics. To that end, while Labour campaigned for remaining in the EU, we also sought to understand the reasons behind why many of you would choose to leave. Following the vote, we committed to work with the government where possible to ensure that Brexit could be carried out in a way that honoured the vote but did not harm the lives and interests of British people. Unfortunately, the Tory government attempted to force the country into an extreme and damaging Brexit arrangement, which would have negatively impacted upon people's jobs and families. The government has regrettably left us no choice but to call for a second vote, as we do not trust the competence or the stability of the Tory party to oversee and decide upon something of the utmost national importance. It is now clear that they are seeking only to preserve themselves politically. As such, the people must once again decide on what they wish to pursue, and Labour will firmly back the outcome, whatever it may be." Would take him about 1 minute to say.

Labour's pummeling at the European elections was obvious and inevitable, and he published an article calling out "Ultra Remainers" as betraying the project and enboldening the far right. He's another one of these people who seems to consistently believe that Leave voters are a bigger proportion of the Labour voting base than Remain voters. They're not. They never were. If that means there is now a disconnect between the people Labour thinks it speaks for, and those who vote for it, then that's just how it is. But Labour hasn't betrayed those people - those people have betrayed themselves.

We haven't been this far along before though, as far as I can tell?

I don't know anything about her beyond what I've just read in Owen Jones' article. What is actually wrong with her? Incidentally, I take Owen's begrudging support for Remain as a good sign. He appears to be closely tied to the party to the point where I would suggest he's more mouthpiece than journalist.