Rayvin

Curious though, what would have emerged from the death of the Tories. Seems clear that a decent chunk of it is 'the far right'.

I genuinely don't think momentum is a bad thing while it's a grassroots movement of Labour voters. The problem with it is that it's now complicit in ignoring the actual will of the membership. There's no problem with having 600,000 members if 90% of them are sensible enough to back remaining in the EU. There is a problem when they're all being ignored.

I think Ed could have been fine if he'd had a stronger line on austerity. Austerity is the source of Brexit, I have no doubt about that personally.

If those are his two options, and he was ever persuaded to join us for whatever bizarre reason, the mackems wouldnt be able to handle it That schtick about players choosing us over Barcelona is something they like to bring up quite a bit. Would be joyous to see them squirm. That said, clearly if those are his two options, it's never going to happen..! Not that it would have even if his two options were us and Berwick, since we would never pay his wages.

I thought it was funny

Mm, if i knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have backed Corbyn. I probably would have just stopped voting.

Another vote of confidence then. The timing is bizarre but then maybe May forced their hand with the second referendum talk. You would think it would have been better to wait until after the elections and blame the poor showing on her, but apparently not.

Why does No Deal being an option run as a bad thing? Ultimately, if there are enough people to vote for it that it overcomes all other options, then that's just how it is. At least there will be an actual mandate for it at that point instead of a politicised fantasy. If Remain can't win a re-run after the shitshow we've seen, then we just have to hold our hands up and admit that the stupid have won the day. We would have no legitimacy in continuing to fight it, not now that we actually have a much clearer understanding of what the options mean. I'm begrudgingly starting to think that May is trying to do the right thing for the country now, presumably having accepted that her bluff has been called and her gambit failed. The longer she stays in power and heads off the extreme elements, the better. If she can get a second referendum on the table before she goes, I'll give her some small credit.

Also, I hope that MP is starting to understand the level of idiocy he has allied himself with. I almost felt bad for him and I'm glad he stood his ground actually, because she was looking for any reason at all to hate him. The Tories have totally lost control of the "leave" camp now. Not sure where that takes them but I feel like a second referendum actually is the only thing that can save them.

That's actually incredible. What is it that the leavers don't like about Mays deal? It's basically perfect for them.

I think it'll be between No Deal and No Brexit. Starting to join the Renton side on this though - doomed to no deal.

Why have they hashtagged Newcastle so hard... Is it for our benefit?

Robert Jordan, the guy who was writing the 15 volume epic 'The Wheel of Time' died of cancer after finishing book 12. But prior to his death he left behind pages and pages of notes for another fantasy author he respected to finish it for fans of the story (which Brandon Sanderson eventually did). Hard to imagine Martin being as dedicated But then we also have Patrick Rothfuss, who started writing the Kingkiller Chronicle, got bored after book 2, and now livestreams himself playing video games while his fans tune in to berate him for not completing it. Fantasy authors are an unreliable bunch

I don't think he will ever finish them because he's rich as fuck and seems to have no motivation. But then I'm cynical about authors in general

Has anyone on RTG ever expressed a positive feeling towards Charlton, prior to this game? Why are they so desperate to be loved...

I really didn't expect to like it since F1 isn't my deal, but it's a story I didn't know, told very well, and Zimmer did a great job with the music. If the film is true to life, Lauda is a champion through and through.

Might use that as an excuse to re-watch Rush. RIP.

Greyworm had become annoying as fuck but i agree, I don't understand why he just accepted that. I also don't understand why, immediately after Greyworm left forever, they didnt just bring Snow back. Dany died satisfyingly. I think in the end that Tyrion effectively "won" the game.

Yeah except my reply, the one immediately beneath that one you replied to, covered that point You guys are fucking hopeless.

The thing with Farage - was he not going around Europe to try to persuade other EU countries to veto an extension? Against the intended wishes of the British government? Is that not something approximating treason? Does that not still carry the death penalty or does it have to be an actual act against the queen? You can see where I'm going with this. For the sake of snowflakery, I'm not advocating that anyone kill Farage. I'm suggesting that he's hardly a patriot.

In fact, if you look at the diehard Labour voters (35%) and Remain (43%) together, that comes to 78% of Labour's 2017 voters. In numbers, that's about 10 million. (Before we get to any Lib Dem, Green and Tory voters who might take one for the team to secure Remain). I know constituencies are what matter, but still. The Tories got 13.6 million last time out and have lost 62% of their voters in these elections, to Farage. That wouldn't hold to a GE, despite 24% of the electorate, incredibly, backing the BP for a GE as well - but they will take damage from this. And anyway, the Tories will eventually become a No Deal party because they have nowhere else to go, which means Labour MUST become a Remain Party. And if we just vote for them blindly, they won't do it. They've proven it already.

I have. I'm banking on the fact that they're losing more to Remain parties though. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/05/17/labour-and-tories-lose-majority-support-brexit-pro This polling seems to suggest that 16% of Labour voters from the 2017 election are backing Brexit Party or UKIP. 43% are backing Remain parties.

We don't get to set that narrative. As shown in the 2017 GE, a vote for Labour means "80% of the country wants to get on with Brexit". So against that backdrop, even if the Brexit Party, Labour and the Tories are all pulled together to be more than 50%, it's an improvement on 80%. Also, it's not quite about the same issue anymore. No one can claim that Labour are backing No Deal. That's all the Brexit Party are backing, as I understand it. So yes, more than 50% of the country could be argued to want Brexit, but not all of those agree on how to do it. Labour are unequivocably opposed to No Deal, so I'm not sure how that alliance gets traction even amongst the narrative setters. There is no middle ground option available once May's deal crashes and burns a fourth time. At that point, Labour will -have- to choose a fucking side. And this strong showing for Remain with Labour voters deserting them should be the convincing kick in the backside they need to just fucking give up on trying to enable this shitshow. Also, seems fairly clear that the people voting Labour in actual fact have no strong opinion on Brexit full stop and would probably accept staying - so those people combined with the Remainers could deliver power to Corbyn. How he hasn't seen this is incredible, but maybe this will demonstrate it. He's ultimately relied on the middle class wringing their hands about the 'fascists' and just getting on with 'doing the right thing'. Fuck him. He has to do the right thing first, and it requires some political bravery.

Pragmatism wins out in the end I think. I won't forgive the Lib Dems more generally, but Labour are the ones who need to choke down a message this time while there's still a small chance this can be averted. The rest of this can be sorted through once the issue is resolved.

I have managed to win 4 friends, and 6 family members over to the Lib Dem cause Anything to shut me up, apparently.