Rayvin

I still maintain that Ashley, surely, can't wait to see the back of us.

Surely that just underlines my point. Giving them a platform or not isn't changing the vote share. We need to engage with the argument. Unless Alan Graves has a comparable social media platform that I'm not aware of.

I'm sure the EU might get some grim satisfaction from rubbing it in Farage's face tbh. It's a huge PR win for them if we stay. They did everything maturely and appropriately to facilitate us leaving, we looked at it and decided it was a nightmare, and changed our minds. That should give every other EU country pause if they approach the same decision.

I mean... that sounds like we're further down the line than we ever have been under Ashley.

Also, Ian Lavery has decided we're all snooty leftwing intellectuals... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/29/labour-chair-peoples-vote-backers-sneering-ordinary-people-ian-lavery The message is really simple Ian. If you don't back a people's vote, you're not winning a GE. That's it. Unless you think Labour can appeal to the xenophobic/racist vote as well as the ordinary working class leavers, you're fucked.

I think the EU will give us it, they must be pretty damn certain Remain would win.

Milo disappeared because the republican right wing abandoned him for saying he thought it was ok for young boys and men to have sexual relationships. Tommy Robinson has been banned from everything except Youtube and while he "only" got 2.2% of the vote in the North West, that was 40,000 people. Sargon has been banned from everything except Youtube and got 60,000 or so votes. There are too many upstart mediums for them to get their messages across now.

@Renton Corbyn would have been a perfect solution for a lot of it if he had just occurred before Brexit did or we had won the damn referendum first time out. Left wing populism. Same for Sanders in the US. Beyond that, we need to start talking to people who have unpalatable views and demonstrate clearly and concisely why they are wrong. Unifying messages about diversity would have helped also, ones that don't denigrate one group to push up another (why would this ever lead to unity, seriously). A lot of this is really basic stuff that no one is prepared to acknowledge. It's too late to suppress it now, it has to be actively fought.

Indeed, if we lose next time out then there's nothing to be said. Everyone knew what they were voting for, it'd be done.

I do see where you're coming from. I'm continuing to stick with Remain on the basis that pragmatism suggests that if everyone -can- just get over it, it's a lot better for all of us. However, I'm not in the crowd that think we should just revoke and stop talking about it - that would be a betrayal too far. And I suppose the Leave voters have been betrayed here. By the Tories alone, but still. We need to reform the narrative from the left, centre it on economics and income inequality, and bolster education on citizenship at schools. One good thing to come from all of this is that the doors have been well and truly blown off political correctness. It was never fixing anything, it just drove everything underground where it could fester and then return with a vengeance. Maybe the left can focus on more unifying issues now.

Aye but once we do that, we've basically become Tories in outlook, have we not? And maybe that's just the natural progression of things. One way or another, and I'm aware of how elitist this is going to sound, the working and underclass have completely taken for granted (and ridiculed) the principled middle class voters who consistently vote against their own interests in order to try to create a better world for everyone. The other side of the argument I suppose is that we could be accused of doing the same thing by not paying attention to their concerns and just trying to shut down conversations about immigration with cries of racism. There needs to be some manner of reconciliation, and it probably needs a common enemy. We're a long way from that point though. Brexit absolutely needs to fuck off first, either way. And genuinely, the only way to do it that can actually provide a foundation for healing the country, is if we have a second vote. Most leavers, I am sure (as CT himself said) would just accept Remaining and get on with their lives. And then we can come back together, without, I hope, the fucking Tories.

Not been online since April 3rd so my conscience dictates I have to say something along the lines of "I hope he's doing ok". With that out of the way, it's possible he flounced after a bust up with your good self a couple of months back Agree though, CT was deeply annoying politically but he never came across as a Farage backer. He was fairly unequivocally opposed to No Deal as well, if I recall. Would be weird to think he could end up on our side in a second referendum.

I wonder what CT makes of all of this, wherever he is. Part of me thought he would have been back over the weekend for a variety of reasons, not least because it would have been an opportunity to wind everyone up about Farage. Maybe he's come over to our side now and is finally just as fearful of No Deal as we are..

I'm not sure about it to be honest, I think it's an oversimplification. I would be very surprised if around 4m people actually want to leave with a deal, given that no particular flavour of deal is being seriously talked about anymore. I think that's 4m tribal voters. The point about the other 16m or so who didn't vote scans though, and I think should really come out in favour of Remain in the end. No Deal Brexit is an extreme position, and it's hard to imagine anyone who really wants it, not having come out to vote for it in these elections. As such, I think that with Remain being 'non-extreme' (however much the No Dealers try to characterise it as such, this should be easily dismissed), it will naturally pick up the majority of the electorate that aren't really arsed either way. I think c.6m might be the full extent of the people really committed to No Deal. I daresay they'll pick up some stragglers as the interest intensifies, but if we have a straight choice between No Deal and Remain, they're fucked. I'd be surprised if they hit 40%, despite what the polls say.

This is a fair point We haven't been shit enough to even qualify for their two Wembley finals. I'm quite certain that if you put the current NUFC side in a League One playoff final and the Checkatrade final, we'd win both with something to spare. We'd certainly register more than one shot on target. Plus you'd notice our fans were there.

Dear me... I mean there's clutching at straws and then there's whatever the fuck that is. A whole different level of delusion.

I don't understand why they aren't more self aware about how much of the blame for what happened to them actually rests with the fans. That season in the championship they picked up 21 points away from home. At home, they picked up 16. Meaning that the atmosphere at home was so dismal that they were actually better off playing in front of opposing fans. That's not on the manager, or the players really, that's on them. They failed to create any kind of supportive atmosphere for the team, for basically an entire season. They needed 6 points to avoid relegation that year. If the home taking of points had exceeded their away taking, by even a solitary point, they'd have done it. Tl;dr, the mackems relegated Sunderland to league one by being shit fans

That tweet explains why it's still pending, unfortunately^

So... it's done then?

Chronicle says it's listed as 'pending'...

FFS I'll check that out then.

Great post by someone on Reddit about the guy's background: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/btsm4j/who_is_sheikh_khalid_bin_zayed_al_nahyan_a_deep/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

It's actually quite possible that Charnley is as totally useless as we think he is you know. He has been promoted far beyond his competence. If Ashley has tasked Bishop with the details and Charnley is just aware that there are multiple talks going on, he could have just offered up the accounts for perusal without being aware that a firm bid had come in.

Kenyon's issue was a lack of proof of funds wasn't it? I guess he could use the same thing here. I mean, I do feel that at some point, Ashley will take the money and run. And the £150m hit he took on Debenhams is something that he really will have felt. Surely he can't enjoy this constant negative shite any more than we do. There has to be an endgame for him, this is the highest the club's stock will ever be under him, it's not going to get better than Rafa and a lower midtable PL finish with what he's prepared to put in.