Rayvin

I would guess that it's an attempt to call the opposition's bluff..? It makes today the last time they can do anything to avert No Deal. They either sit tight and hope that what they've done is strong enough to get us through this, or they VONC him and take control themselves, with all the consequences that entails.

He's going to prorogue Parliament tonight. For the longest period of time since World War 2, and in the middle of a national crisis.

I suppose given that the DUP no longer matter this is potentially feasible, but it does mean that if Johnson campaigns on this platform he will in effect be giving +10 MPs to the Remain side.

Fully agree. Only way to end it is Remain though, it's going to drag on for a decade with No Deal. As it stands, if it is No Deal, I'm just not going to bother voting again. Nothing we can vote on after that, probably at least for a generation, is going to make up for what we will lose. The Tories can just have at it.

This is clearly going to be a tedious week. Cummings appears to have come out all guns blazing. As for that NI backstop issue, surely they would need a majority to get that through parliament. One they won't get. Not that i understand it from that tweet.

This mackem fell apart pretty quickly. I don't even know why they bother tbh, Howay has taken this guy apart in about 5 posts without breaking a sweat. Particularly enjoyed the challenging of the correct usage of the word 'deflect' in a failed bid to claim the intellectual highground. No one on here is going to be persuaded that you lot are a good fanbase because we have been casually checking RTG off and on for years, and we know damn well what you're about.

How is what he is proposing, undemocratic?

Seems reasonable to me - and also seems like the way we're heading. They're forcing us to have a GE at the very least - and we seem certain to have one, just after the extension is granted. I think this is fine.

Their own fans were responsible for getting them relegated from the Championship by making the SOL such an inhospitable and devoid of energy environment to play in. Fewer points won at home than away that season. Who cares how many they're taking to various League One stadiums.

I agree with you. There's too much time left for there not to be at least one more chaotic occurrence thrown into the mix.

As an aside, we're basically going to have to choose between the super rich, disaster capitalist, incompetent and quite possibly racist establishment, or the benign but indifferent and out of touch conventional establishment. At some point, seriously, can we just try the fucking left? I mean Sweden and Norway look pretty fucking stable to me, compared to this utter shitshow.

This is going to be messy tbh. Honestly I don't think the Tories have the numbers to make this work even with a Brexit Party pact. I mean for all the Daily Mail is exciting itself over the current polls, it's basically saying the following: Tories + Brexit Party (+DUP) = 48% Labour + Lib Dems = 40% Therefore, Brexit. Ignoring the SNP, Greens, Independents and Plaid, all of whom will vote down No Deal. So that's 52:48 in favour of the remainers and of course the potential that the DUP simply won't back No Deal because it will break up the union, if they ever actually manage to get that through their heads. So back to a hung parliament, pretty much. A general election will solve nothing unless the Tories collapse in the process. Labour aren't going to collapse any further, that's for sure. In fact I think it likely they will get a boost.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/campaigners-second-eu-referendum-plan-mass-tactical-vote People's vote campaign is stepping up for tactical voting in a GE. If Labour can solidly back a people's vote, maybe we can make something work between Lib Dems and them. Honestly I think this is going to be brutal and polarising.

Farage wants a clear run at the north apparently. We're not out of the woods on this yet I fear, although if many more Tory MPs resign the whip we might get to a point where a coalition government can usurp the Tories. They're own to 288 MPs, with Labour + SNP at 283. I mean, throw in the LibDems and you've got them, but presumably we're waiting to see if we can reduce the number of parties involved or they've just concluded that this isn't the way to do things.

Will they win? Is he in a Leave constituency?

I mean, Rudd hung on to her seat by a thread anyway. She's quite possibly looked at it and thought that this was better than being humiliated. It's still positive though, although we need about another 20 Tories to go before Labour are bigger which is really the only remaining milestone for this.

WTF

If Johnson is really insane enough to do that, the only recourse open to the opposition is a VONC, which does technically give him what he wants. On the other hand, this is a ready made excuse for Labour to point to on Monday when they don't vote for the GE. Johnson proving himself to be, basically, a criminal. Something we've all known for years anyway, but still.

The former Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith encouraged Mr Johnson to break the law, saying he would be seen as a Brexit “martyr” if judges opted to put him jail for breaching parliament’s terms. ?!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/boris-johnson-short-of-options-as-rebels-vow-to-secure-brexit-delay Johnson is apparently going to break the law instead of ask for an extension. I mean... What?

I mean hardly any of us knew anything going into this vote, so it's forgivable. The primary reason I voted Remain was that I couldn't fathom the implications of such a huge decision - coupled with the fact that it always felt to me like austerity was the bigger issue (hence my support for Corbyn in his earlier days and total disillusionment with Labour under Miliband). And I say that even as an EU federalist who believes in the creation of a superstate It's been reassuring to see, in a way, that the politicians turned out to be just as clueless as us. The EU seem to have a pretty good grasp of how the EU works at least.

That's a fair point.

And what are your views on the backstop? I've seen some people talk as if we should just jettison NI, Ewerk be damned

I think because of the way the whole thing has been handled so far, No Deal kind of has to be on the ballot. Too many politicians have made it sound credible. I do see what you're saying though, and i think its possible they will remove it. Labour seem fairly clear on that at least. As for Zerosum, one point you made that I was curious about. In your view, how was Mays deal anything other than hard Brexit? It killed freedom of movement and took us out of all institutions if i remember rightly. I ask because you refer to it as a hard-ish Brexit.

I think she was getting flak because on paper it sounds ridiculous - negotiate a deal and then campaign against it. But, having said that, if you think it through it's actually not as crazy as it sounds. People who are deriding her are talking as if Labour believe they can get a super special awesome deal (the one Leave talked about I guess). Apparently they don't believe that. What she appears to suggest is that Labour do the best they can do to get something resembling a coherent deal that doesn't annihilate the country, and then offer people a vote on it while telling people, quite frankly, that remain is still better than the deal they've achieved. I don't think that breaks any logical thinking. As for your specific point, I've seen a lot of different opinions on this. There are some who think it should just be Deal Brexit or No Deal Brexit. Some who think it should be Remain or Deal. Others who think it should be No Deal, Deal or Remain. I'm not sure I've come across anyone so far who thinks it should specifically be No Deal vs Remain but that's probably just because there is no way No Deal would win that. As for me, I agree with you - I think it should be No Deal vs Remain. Mostly because if they throw a deal in, there's a chance it might win.