Rayvin

We have been witnessing a right (and left) wing push back against globalisation that is fundamentally misunderstood as a rise of fascism, to my enduringly deep frustration. It is not. It is an issue, but it is not fascism (even if fascists hijack it periodically). A government ignoring the laws and constitution of a country actually -is- fascism. Even Trump can't get away with the kind of shit Johnson appears to be trying for.

Johnson has put his own self before 60 million people (and destroyed the Tories in the process) but I'm not going to argue this any further, I respect I'm in a minority.

I respect where you're coming from and maybe with the realm of standard British politics you're right, but in terms of human history and destructive potential, I disagree.

You know those people who think we're witnessing the rise of fascism, and I regularly complain about them in the SJW thread for being ridiculous and distracting from real issues? Based on the fact we have a government actively trying to subvert Parliament for its own gain by threatening to ignore laws, hiding information that might save lives/prevent serious economic harm, and shutting down parliament in a bid to avoid scrutiny during a time of national crisis, I'm starting to think maybe I was wrong. That doctor who rubbed JRM up the wrong way claims they're stockpiling body bags for increased mortality post-Brexit. Maybe it's project fear, but one thing I'm fucking certain of is that I wouldn't trust Johnson and Cummings to have given it a second thought, true or not.

Cameron backed Remain, Johnson was a remainer who backed Leave for personal political advantage. Maybe Cameron, in Johnson's position, would do the same things - but we don't actually know that. All we know is that he was a total cunt who set the groundwork for all of this and gambled with the country's future, but -at least- was on the right side of the debate. Frankly, I consider Farage more morally credible than Johnson because he has stuck to his plan throughout a period of some 20 years. Johnson is unforgivable. Even for a politician.

So you prefer Johnson?

And Johnson didn't vote for any of that? I'm not saying Cameron was a moral paragon, far fucking from it. But fucking look at what's going on man. Fucking look at it.

It depends what you think is worse. I'll get on board for certain with Cameron being more damaging overall, but in terms of moral fortitude, I put him head and shoulders above Johnson and Cummings. He may have opened the door for the monsters to walk through, and as such if you were going to go back in time and assassinate anyone, it'd be him - but he isn't the monster itself.

I don't see Cameron breaking the law or avoiding doing what Parliament says. I mean Number 10 has just confirmed that if they pass this vote to have the government release Yellowhammer and private whatsapp messages to prove proroguing was in order to ensure No Deal - they will simply ignore it. Cameron was an asshat, but no way he'd be doing this. The country is actually, without exaggeration, being hijacked by a man who could best be described as an absolute clusterfuck of an individual, and someone who I can only assume is a chartered psychopath. This is worse than Cameron.

In terms of absolutes, maybe. But I'd have him back in a heartbeat now.

I don't think it matters at this point, we're in the end game of the whole affair. If we get past October 31st and we're still not out, we'll find a way to Remain. If Johnson takes us out before then, it makes no difference if Bercow is there or not since the UK will be finished as a place worth living in for about 50 years, according to Rees-Mogg at least.

Apparently No. 10 has just seen polling that suggests that if there was an election now they would do worse than Theresa May. Although that obviously doesn't mean we're out of the woods since the Brexit Party could be picking the seats up instead.

I would guess that it's an attempt to call the opposition's bluff..? It makes today the last time they can do anything to avert No Deal. They either sit tight and hope that what they've done is strong enough to get us through this, or they VONC him and take control themselves, with all the consequences that entails.

He's going to prorogue Parliament tonight. For the longest period of time since World War 2, and in the middle of a national crisis.

I suppose given that the DUP no longer matter this is potentially feasible, but it does mean that if Johnson campaigns on this platform he will in effect be giving +10 MPs to the Remain side.

Fully agree. Only way to end it is Remain though, it's going to drag on for a decade with No Deal. As it stands, if it is No Deal, I'm just not going to bother voting again. Nothing we can vote on after that, probably at least for a generation, is going to make up for what we will lose. The Tories can just have at it.

This is clearly going to be a tedious week. Cummings appears to have come out all guns blazing. As for that NI backstop issue, surely they would need a majority to get that through parliament. One they won't get. Not that i understand it from that tweet.

This mackem fell apart pretty quickly. I don't even know why they bother tbh, Howay has taken this guy apart in about 5 posts without breaking a sweat. Particularly enjoyed the challenging of the correct usage of the word 'deflect' in a failed bid to claim the intellectual highground. No one on here is going to be persuaded that you lot are a good fanbase because we have been casually checking RTG off and on for years, and we know damn well what you're about.

How is what he is proposing, undemocratic?

Seems reasonable to me - and also seems like the way we're heading. They're forcing us to have a GE at the very least - and we seem certain to have one, just after the extension is granted. I think this is fine.

Their own fans were responsible for getting them relegated from the Championship by making the SOL such an inhospitable and devoid of energy environment to play in. Fewer points won at home than away that season. Who cares how many they're taking to various League One stadiums.

I agree with you. There's too much time left for there not to be at least one more chaotic occurrence thrown into the mix.

As an aside, we're basically going to have to choose between the super rich, disaster capitalist, incompetent and quite possibly racist establishment, or the benign but indifferent and out of touch conventional establishment. At some point, seriously, can we just try the fucking left? I mean Sweden and Norway look pretty fucking stable to me, compared to this utter shitshow.

This is going to be messy tbh. Honestly I don't think the Tories have the numbers to make this work even with a Brexit Party pact. I mean for all the Daily Mail is exciting itself over the current polls, it's basically saying the following: Tories + Brexit Party (+DUP) = 48% Labour + Lib Dems = 40% Therefore, Brexit. Ignoring the SNP, Greens, Independents and Plaid, all of whom will vote down No Deal. So that's 52:48 in favour of the remainers and of course the potential that the DUP simply won't back No Deal because it will break up the union, if they ever actually manage to get that through their heads. So back to a hung parliament, pretty much. A general election will solve nothing unless the Tories collapse in the process. Labour aren't going to collapse any further, that's for sure. In fact I think it likely they will get a boost.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/campaigners-second-eu-referendum-plan-mass-tactical-vote People's vote campaign is stepping up for tactical voting in a GE. If Labour can solidly back a people's vote, maybe we can make something work between Lib Dems and them. Honestly I think this is going to be brutal and polarising.