Rayvin

If Labour enable this in any way, I'm back to never voting for them again. I don't care if it's just one Labour MP. Until that MP is purged out of the party, they lose my vote. We cannot have Boris and Gove win this after all their machinations. There needs to be a consequence for those who caused it.

Fair point, I would take that with bells on though.

They'll be fine, with or without us but maybe. In other news: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-49913840 Kuennsberg is actually using the line that the Benn Act made Boris' life harder for getting a deal. She's legitimizing the insane notion that No Deal was helping us at all.

What do the EU care once we're out? I really think they'd be fine with us getting a deal, the extent to which they need us has been hugely overblown. Or do you mean assuming it gets voted down in Parliament? Frankly I think they'd be fine with No Deal, I suspect they just want it over without looking like the bad guys.

Yeah sorry, I just mean when the EU comes along and insists that the they get the final say on termination. As it stands with Johnson's deal, the DUP have that, right? I assume the EU will kick that away.

Encouraging but I still have a bad feeling about this. It looks like May's deal more or less with the caveat that the ERG are now probably in a position to vote for it as they know they're on the cusp of losing Brexit altogether. The sticking point appears to be the DUP alone, and it's not like Johnson actually needs them. Hmm.

I'm not sure you know, I think Johnson would take this. It's No Deal in all but NI. Can you see Swinson saying anything different?

And of course we now have Lib Dems coming out and saying they'd prefer No Deal to Corbyn in power, even briefly. The absolute psychopaths. https://www.thenational.scot/news/17942282.scottish-libdem-mp-prefers-no-deal-brexit-corbyn-government/

Am concerned that the EU haven't dismissed this out of hand... If it somehow is made to work, and then it goes back to Parliament, the following issues would be a problem: 1 - The Tory rebels might back it along with some Labour rebels. 2 - it really will set the people against parliament if it gets voted down. A deal has always been the biggest remaining threat to us IMO.

I can't remember if I articulated a view one way or the other about what I thought would happen about Brexit, but I do recall at least feeling that Remain would win, and being surprised that it didn't. However, that was a watershed moment for me - after that I recall being fairly certain that Trump would do better than people thought, if not win. With Brexit though, you could see the polls narrowing in the days before, and there was a real sense that it could go horribly wrong. The same might happen this time, but the unicorns don't exist anymore. Brexit can't be all things to all people anymore, it's going to be a very fixed thing only. Which is in part where my confidence comes from.

Let's look at it this way - even if you're right, we have nothing to lose. So there should be nothing to fear.

I'm struggling with it a bit then because none of the leaders have covered themselves in glory. Maybe just someone smart enough to hold up in debates. Cooper?

100% this. It can't be Corbyn and I think Miller might be too divisive. Maybe a celebrity as a notional figurehead?

In fact, I think the biggest threat is a deal. So if this is his final gambit on that front, good. We need those Tory rebels to stay onside.

Your justification for a lack of optimism, with respect, seems anecdotal. You see some leavers on QT ranting and raving and the vehemency of what they're saying seems to translate somehow into a representation of the number of people who think that way. Honestly, I don't think I'm optimistic - I think I'm realistic. Polls support the statement, the desire to end the whole thing is on Remain's side and even if we do go to vote 2, there's a chance it will be between soft brexit and Remain. Overall, the odds are tilting in our favour if we can just outlast Johnson.

67 straight polls since we voted out have come back as Remain. We won't vote out next time. Remain will have learned, the youth will have learned.

So this won't fly then? I'm with Cummings on this one, if the EU reject it we shouldn't hang around negotiating we should move on to the end game for the whole disaster.

Just watched the video under the one C4 News have posted there with the coffee cup that gets handed to him and then taken away again by a separate handler because they've just pledged to remove all disposable coffee cups by 2023 He has no idea what's going on.

The Tories literally attacking each other now.

A man has been detained by police after pouring a flammable liquid over himself near the Houses of Parliament, the Press Association reports. He's a living metaphor for the UK.

So Bruce has taken the players to one side, yelled at them, cancelled training, and now needs 'clear the air' talks, 7 games into the season. Yes, he has 100% lost that dressing room. I don't think even Ashley will let this continue much longer tbh. What a farce.

I sometimes wonder what opposition fans think when they come on here - presumably they come on expecting to see bravado ahead of games or whatever, and are then bemused to find a group of football nihilists who actively want their club to be relegated and to stay relegated, barely paying any attention to their opponents or the wider footballing world

Like that panel at his conference that was being Islamophobic while discussing the issue.

Who is even buying this anymore? It's totally pointless bollocks. The EU have apparently already dismissed it - I mean, as if they can't see Johnson for what he is ffs.

He's just denied this anyway by the sounds.