Rayvin

What would the right thing have been? War with Turkey? EDIT - this isn't a challenge, it's just a question.

I have been thinking a lot about this and have some queries because the more I think about it, the more I think Trump has done the right thing here. It's been reported today that a Russian backed deal with Syria, which will see the Kurds revert to Syrian rule instead of being autonomous, has been agreed. The Kurds have surrendered their newly won freedoms in exchange for protection from Erdogan, which will see the political situation return to more or less where it was before this whole fiasco kicked off. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/14/assad-troops-enter-northeast-syria-russia-backed-deal-kurds/ So I think we can safely assume that Russia and Syria will be able to repel Turkey at least as well as the US would have been, if not more. The Kurds, for their part, agreed to this pretty quickly. In fact, the whole thing happened so fast that I would be surprised if the US didn't expect/know of it. So ok, we've surrendered geopolitical control of the region to Russia, more or less as things were before Obama got involved. What would the US or the Kurds have gained by the US staying? A full on war with Turkey? Do any of us actually want that? As humiliating as this is for the US, I actually think fewer people will die this way. As a further point, this stupid conflict has created a influx of refugees into Europe which has been part of the overall propulsion of the far right within European states. I mean Merkel admitting 1 million Syrians into Germany 3 months before Brexit might have been the difference between leave and remain. Erdogan now threatening another 3.6m might be the difference next time (if there is a next time). The US has basically waded into a war near enough on our doorstep, the destabilising consequences of which have been felt all over the continent. If Trump's departure ends this, allows Assad and Putin to stamp it out and finally put the issue to rest, then maybe that's actually just for the best. I'm not saying Trump had any manner of thoughts along these lines when he left, but unintentionally, this may be the best course of action. If Russia protects the Kurds, then I think it probably is. So am I overlooking something?

I think they've thrown that in there to make it more likely that the speech gets voted down.

This is where I have been for the past day now. I really think he can get a deal through. The Labour rebels too..

I'm concerned, but then I was always going to be with the prospect of a deal. He's going to pitch this as some kind of fucking compromise. If Brexit was on a scale of 0 to 100 with 0 as remain and 100 as no deal, I have the sense that he's going to come back with a 97 and try to pretend that it's a 52. And the 52 will think that it is.

That is beyond painful.

In what sense is working at Nissan not a proper job?

The fucking stupid thing about that is that if Nissan goes, Sunderland becomes an even more impoverished shit hole than it already is, and those leave voters become more angry, and more prone to nationalistic fervour. Anything to make them feel better about themselves. So as much as it might be satisfying to watch the silly bastards burn in the flames of their own choices, it's not really good for the country long term because they lack the emotional responsibility to take ownership of their mistakes.

Part of me wonders if Trump putting the whims of one US citizen over that of justice and his country's relationship with a long term ally may encourage the people who think that we're going to get some kind of awesome US trade deal that we're really just going to be shat upon from a great height. But it probably won't.

Tbf that's Brexit supporters in a nutshell.

I get the feeling that Hammond is a bit of a political introvert but you're right.

I mean yes - I think on here at least we're pretty consistent on an election not solving anything. For me it needs to be a referendum. But an election solves nothing - it will be a remainer parliament with a Brexit government, once again (if the polls are anything to go by)

If this is true, Johnson is fucked. So I think he's lying - unless he can somehow still manage to keep Farage on board so that they don't cannibalise each other.

I suspect he's going to resign tbh, possibly off the back of his Queen's Speech being voted down, thus opening up the trap for Labour to walk into. If he does, the GE needs to happen later rather than sooner, and a people's vote needs to occur first. But Labour will take the bait.

I agree on that tbf, but I am curious as to what it is they think they can do. I remain more concerned about a deal happening than anything else. Was always the real danger.

He's clearly got some kind of gambit. Sounds a little like it could be to try to override the legitimacy of Parliament with the legitimacy of the referendum. And it's great that the DUP have rejected it but once Johnson gets hold of them I'm less sure they'll resist.

In fact it could potentially get through. The Tory rebels would be back onside. Along with the Labour rebels.. I think we might be fucked if they offer this.

In which case its actually the first irritating thing the EU have done. It legitimizes Johnson's approach by making it look like he's achieved something with his No Deal threat, and pushes the "blame" onto a remainer parliament.

I'm not saying it would be more fun. I'm saying that it's only marginally less fun. If fun is indeed the right word. I'm saying that the risk is very slender for me because the margins of enjoyment are so fine. Look, if all you need is your weekly kick of excitement to get the blood going and you could care less about the wider direction the club is taking then fair enough. But for me, the former isn't enough. So I don't care if we're beating Man Utd on occasion, with the slim exception that a young local lad scored and that this is always nice to see, because the overall lack of direction makes it impossible for me to emotionally commit to any of this. I can't take it anymore, I'd rather see us go down and hope that if we languish long enough, it'll force him out. I didn't care that we beat Spurs. I didn't really care that we beat Man Utd. I mean a few years ago I would have been jumping up and down around my living room even with the club owned by Ashley, but now it's gone. So it's not that I want us relegated because we'll win more, it's not that I think it's good for the club in general, it's that I think it's literally the only way that Ashley will ever go, and that I can't enjoy this football club properly until he has. And really, for me, it's because this club isn't on a journey to anywhere. It's at its endpoint under Ashley. This is the destination. This is all there is.

That is shameful. I'm absolutely embarrassed for this country. Yet again.

So it looks like "the Don" has kept Ross on board for the past few weeks as a fallback if the takeover fell through. Basically, he was kept around so that he could be sacked the moment the shit hit the fan in the notion that it might go some way to placating the fanbase. Fucking ouch Basket case of a club.

I wonder if they'd take Bruce off our hands. He's about their level atm in all seriousness.

Hmm. I suppose that is the other way to look at it. I could actually kind of get behind him coming out and saying his plan is to pay off that fucking debt and thus lower the asking price the the club. It means any bid in the £300m range immediately becomes a much bigger win for him since he isn't also using that to pay off £100m of debt. If that was the plan, and he was clear about it, then fine. I could handle plodding along pointlessly in the PL for a few more years. But he's not made it clear at any point that this is something he really wants to happen.

More quickly than what? Cos it looks like he's here forever at this rate. I think 3 years in the Championship mid-table would do it. Parachute payments run out, level of investment required to push us back is extreme. So the question in my mind is would I prefer to spend the next 3 years 14th to 17th in the PL with no hope of progress, the whole concept of supporting the club reduced to simply the enjoyment you can get out of a single match at a time rather than any bigger picture - or would I prefer to spend the next 3 years in the championship with an elevated chance that Ashley might fuck off at the end of it. It's easy for me. Even with the risk that he doesn't sell after 3 years, so what? You still get the enjoyment from a single match at a time and an otherwise non-existent bigger picture in the championship. We've lost basically nothing more than the occasional, inexplicable victory over "big clubs". Also, even if he does stay after the 3 years, it'll be fucking painful for him. Which is a plus.