Rayvin

Good news for Johnson or for us? Are you assuming that no more than 6 will vote for the deal, and therefore it will lose? Or that this number is so high that he's basically guaranteed to grab enough of them?

Letwin himself now saying he'll vote for the deal. What did you guys think this would change?

I still don't see how this changes anything.

Mark Francois and his ilk have kicked the shit out of all of us. I'm now in the acceptance stage of grief I think. The Labour MPs getting this over the line was the final straw.

Whenever it is, why will anyone change their mind? What new information comes to light? It's more time for political machinations for sure, but if there was ever a time for the remain side to pull out all the stops it was the past few days - and all we have is some ingenuity from a Tory backbencher. That's the full might of remain brought to bear on this issue. The remain side won't unite, and so divided they fall. Its over. I genuinely can't see how anything comes along to save us from here. I mean the Labour MPs had made clear weeks before the deal that they'd vote for literally anything as long as it was referred to as a deal. What comes along to change that?

So you think that by Monday these Labour and Tory rebels will unearth something in this deal that makes it unvoteworthy? Something that, despite the national emergency this debacle is, they couldn't see by today, and so they intended to just wing it as a benefit of the doubt to Johnson? They're going to vote for it on Monday. I almost hope Letwin fails just to get it over with.

Has the text of the deal been released?

Right but why does that change the overall thrust of this? So they close the loophole, the government brings back the bill on Monday and everyone votes for it. Why would this change anyone's vote?

I really hope you're right mate but this just feels inevitable now.

What does it change though. The pieces are all set, everyone has chosen their side. He's just delaying the inevitable now.

Honestly, if we have to do this maybe it's for the best that it's pretty much the most extreme option possible. It'll hurt more and make it easier to demonstrate why it was wrong. If Labour MPs are going to vote for this then it really is over.

It's a tough one for me because I am going to be personally impacted by this and I feel pretty helpless frankly. It's making me quite anxious. Sorry if it's bothering anyone.

Looking at the guardian's livefeed it appears to be a resounding Yes to that question. So Parliament has actually contrived to get an even worse, more hard-core version of May's deal which it initially voted down for being too extreme. I am absolutely done with Labour after this, but frankly they're all a bunch of pathetic, spineless, clueless fuckheads. Except the Tories who are just distilled evil in human form.

Been out of the loop with this, are we fucked then?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/john-mcdonnell-expects-labour-mps-to-hold-firm-on-brexit-deal McDonnell seems to think Labour can hold together.

Looking at Hoey's twitter actually, I'm not convinced she'll vote for this. Seems very DUP friendly.

Ah, that'd be why. Great. So that's him and Hoey with one final blow before they bow out. Mann -at least- represents a constituency that voted 68% leave. Hoey still the far worse culprit in this. What was Vauxhall, something like 70% Remain?

You're right, they just want to continue as career politicians. It's disgraceful. Even some Tories have been brave enough to risk that in favour of the national interest. How they can't see what's coming if this deal goes through though is just unbelievable. They won't survive it. Labour will be smashed at a GE and they will be de-selected one way or another. Momentum will make sure of it. And on this occasion, I sincerely hope they do.

Corbyn: "I believe in the power of persuasion rather than the power of threat. I will ask all labour MPs to vote along with the party in opposing any deal which damages rights and protections in our society or drives us into the arms of Donald Trump." So he's going to try and persuade them to vote against the deal by appeals to their left wing nature. It all hangs on the extent to which he's able to do this I guess.

What is even Mann's agenda in this, seriously? What the fuck is he trying to prove?

I don't think Corbyn wants to hand Johnson this victory, but at the same time it's clear that Brexit isn't the most important issue in the room for him. If it goes through, Labour will get spanked at a GE though, I don't understand why he can't see that.

You're free not to care as long as you vote the right way if somehow it comes back to a vote. I mean indeed, there's nothing any of us can do about it presently anyway.

And so ofc, John Mann comes out and says he's voting for it and more than 9 others will also. If that's true, we're fucked. I think we could get away with 7.

I think this is where a lot of people are coming from now - I saw the guardian reference a poll that said 54% of people now back a deal over any other alternative. I doubt they know what's in the deal, what it means for them, or anything other than the fact that it "ends Brexit" - but that's where a lot of people are. I think on balance that this would chance over the course of a constructive referendum campaign, but it's still a concern.

Well they fucking should be, but why leave it to the exec committee? On the deal itself, the entire ERG will vote for it - looking at what is being said now I'm basically certain of that. The Tory rebels will most likely all go for it with perhaps 3 exceptions. So he only needs about 10 Labour rebels. It'll be a dark day in they vote it through.