Rayvin

Well I'm not saying they should have objected to it, I think now that actually they should have listened far more. But it's more an explanation of why people simply didn't trust that it was real. Anyway I've shared that article around a bit.

I think part of the problem was that the issue became hugely politicised early on. It wasnt raised in isolation, it was raised alongside a coup from the moderate Labour MPs and almost as an afterthought from the press once continuous banging on about his electability had failed to yield results. As such, for me at least, it just got lumped in with all the other bollocks that was being spouted as a cynical move to take him down. Honestly, I barely even understood why anyone would be talking about it within the left, this whole Jewish global conspiracy thing I always thought was a right wing position. Anyway, Corbyn won't win power today and he won't survive any non-victory outcome, so we have a chance to move on from it with someone younger who isn't steeped in so much historical baggage around the issue. That's a start I guess.

Seems like we're going to have to take Labour to task for this either way. These fringe loonies need kicking out, they're only hurting us anyway. The policies need to stay though.

I also think her conclusion on Corbyn is probably accurate. In his heart not an antisemite, but by his actions he is.

I think its a brave article and I really get a stronger sense of why the Jewish community are struggling with this one. I mean, I wasn't blaming them for not voting Labour anyway, they can vote how they want, but it does at least shine a light on why so many of them are concerned. And I do have a lot of sympathy actually because they are genuinely caught between two horrible positions and are essentially expected to self sacrifice with little guarantee that Labour are taking this seriously. One thing I think i struggle with a bit is that she's not spent any time on mitigations. It is undeniable, thanks largely to admissions from Israel itself, that the Israeli government actively tries to politically eliminate non-Israel friendly MPs. So I can see to a degree why there is a strong sensitivity around this issue within Labour. So the Israeli government is hardly helping their cause either, in fact I suspect that this is actively the response it wants. And I don't say this out of some sense that there's a Jewish collective that wants to control things, but out of a 'It's a foreign nation that wants to make political gains by influencing the politics of another country'. See also Russia. How do we counteract that? I mean tbh, if it was up to me I would issue a statement tomorrow saying that Israel was a fine nation and that i couldn't care less what it does because this shit really isnt important to domestic politics in the UK. But clearly that isn't possible. The other thing is, like it or not, the media haven't helped them. No one in the mainstream media (I know) save for perhaps a handful of people, actually gives a fuck about this issue for what it is. And that is transparently obvious to any Labour voters. This is just the issue that stuck, the one thing that has really cut through and which the right wing press have been using over and over. There's a siege mentality within the left against this sort of thing anyway, and it makes getting anyone to listen very difficult indeed. However, we should be recognising that our Jewish comrades are caught helplessly in the middle of this, and that just because the right wing press are delighted to have something that actually lands on Corbyn, it doesn't mean it's not something of substance. So when I say mitigations, I mean that much of the pressure on this has come from a right wing press that no one in Labour trusts (for good reason) and against a backdrop of Israel making clear that it actively tries to fuck up non-Israel friendly MPs. I think its fear and mistrust more then genuine hatred. Of course, the former ends up as the latter quite often. Either way, I appreciate you sending it over and will keep it at the forefront of my thoughts on this. And I guess it has changed my view in fairness. I'll speak out more strongly on this in future, in defence of Jewish people. And I'm sorry for not having given it sufficient weight previously.

Not that i don't take your point. In truth I'm half reassuring myself anyway.

It's worth remembering in all of this that Corbyn has stood up against antisemitism all his life, has stood in solidarity with Jews at demonstrations and in the aftermath of attacks, and has really done very little to hurt them other than apparently to listen to the other side of the Israel-Palestine issue. Yes Labour has a problem with some fringe loonies, but there are 500,000 in the membership. Kind of inevitable. And I'm fairly certain they'll get a handle on it now.

Yeah indeed, you're right. We'll see how it goes I guess.

Or you wiped out one of theirs

Guardian reporting queues out the door, into the hundreds, of people waiting to vote in several places including Putney which is very marginal. Weather doesn't seem to have been a big deterrent so far. Apparently my seat is being watched as a national indicator since Newcastle will report early and it's a leave constituency. Would be amazed if it didn't go Labour though.

I read the Jewish rabbis statements about anti-Semitism and why The Jews had abandoned Labour in such numbers. It said there were two reasons. 1. The party has moved too far left. 2. Anti-Semitism. I find the order of those statements interesting. Corbyn was also backed last night by several other rabbis from across the country who don't have the media's ear. Either way, I am enduringly incredulous that anyone seriously thinks that Jewish people are facing some kind of legitimate, state backed persecution under a Labour government.

Where have those 3 points come from... Greens? Independents? Either way it's welcome. If just to dispel some of the gloom that might stop people voting.

Ah, if you've been out canvassing then you post whatever you want as much as you want mate Well done for the effort.

Can't expect people to check the previous page man, who has time for that?

I'm actually starting to feel bad for Gloom here tbh, this shit is undeniable. The BBC is pro-Tory and partisan. I don't care whether they've been scared into it or theyre just a sack of cunts, but they're not impartial. The US media isn't as dismal as this man.

By "this" I mean everything really. I've been reading the comments on the guardian and the despair really is setting in. The few optimists seem delusional at best and the Tory trolls are digging in. I really hope people aren't persuaded not to bother..

They should be fucking annihilated for this. And thanks to the Tories, they will be. That's the one silver lining at this point, the BBC getting curb stomped by the beast they've been kowtowing to.

Fair play to him

But look at the numbers. Are you telling me that 10% more old people as a minimum have decided to vote? The guy also mentions, perhaps a bit more alarmingly, that there has been a 10% shift in youth away from Labour. Hopefully that's to LD though. Decent shift in over 60s from Tory to Labour too. Idek what's going on now.

I mean 90% of everyone over 80? Are 90% of people over 80 even able to stand up unassisted?

Which means they've significantly overestimated old people turnout, and significantly underestimated young people turnout (I hope).

@Gemmill Is this potentially encouraging? Looks like the Yougov poll has given over 60s the heaviest weighting for years..

Lib Dem in Cardiff throws his support behind his Labour opponent...

Although looking at the list there are about 3 Labour MPs who should consider it and 20 LDs...

Lib Dem candidate is urging all LDs to vote Labour in Stockton South. I'd kill for some of the Labour equivalents to do likewise. Raab's seat maybe.