Rayvin

It'll be more than 5.

Given Sunderland's level recently he may in fact actually be thrilled at a draw. That could be a genuine statement of elation. I mean they nearly lost after all.

Guess I agree with this. But I think the sadder thing by far is that the nation won't learn from this, not Labour. In 5 years time the same shithousing, lies and bullshit will swing stupid people.

A pledge designed to secure a minority government that can't actually deliver it IMO. We've lost this anyway, it's going to be a Tory utopia.

Aye, I've wondered if anyone will be on here crowing about it when it happens. Although i think CT will come in with mock pity and claim that if only there was a good centrist option, he wouldn't have had to vote for literally Satan.

It's hard to tell on crowd bias. Were they pro-Labour or were they just well informed?

Tories have decided they've won tonight's TV thing. Apparently the thing they wanted most was for Corbyn to say something unequivocal on Brexit. Now they can stitch him up as they planned to no matter what he said, apparently.

I'm not convinced that there's an overwhelming demand for a return to centrism based on what we're seeing, it has to be said. I think we're in "pick a side" territory. CT has chosen the racist millionaires for some reason but there we go.

The country is £1.5tn in debt. Out of interest, where do you think the extra £700bn that the Tories have racked national debt up by since coming into power has actually gone? Since we're living under austerity etc.

This Tory government, if it leaves office, will be departing with a higher national debt than we've ever had, doubling what it was dealing with when it took over. They're morons man, you know they are.

God I hope the audience is just warming up for Johnson. Swinson deserves this for being willing to sacrifice Remain for LD power, but Johnson obviously deserves it more.

Strangely, it seems the LD position of clear revoke looks to be widely unpopular, divisive, and fucking stupid. If only we could have seen that coming...

She should have come down on Labour's side ffs. How hard was it to grasp that once the election took off, this was how it was going to go. Is she at least winning over any Tories?

I very much hope this is right. I also hope that the large numbers of students registering are in areas where it will make a difference.

I don't think anyone alive can swing the pro-Johnson crowd to a non-hard Brexit stance. Not even Blair. It's the undecideds that he needs to win over I guess.

That's good to hear. Will be interesting to see how Johnson does...

Good. Fucking sensible position and finally it will remove this stupid notion that he doesn't have a clear stance.

Sure, but if Scotland secedes and joins the EU, I can then leave Scotland and go somewhere else. Agree on LDs, but I'm not sure it's working. If Johnson takes straight out of the Trump playbook, it can only get worse from here IMO. The added difficulty will be that those who voted for him, based on the Brexit fiasco, will just double down. Even when their lives are falling apart around them, they will double down. We've learned this much. They lack the emotional maturity and sense of self to be able to actually learn from anything. Eventually, I think we have to conclude that this just isn't worth it. If the EU makes rejoining it on an individual basis even remotely accessible, I'm gone. Fuck this country.

I think that's a slim hope - the Tories are being unashamed about their views now, and I think that will pervade the next government. Brexit is the carte blanche they need to get anything they want. I think releasing the Russian papers might help us, if somehow, someone can be compelled to do it. Other than that, I think we have to rely on the mother of all grassroots campaigns from Labour. The Lib Dems certainly don't appear to be about to do us any favours particularly. I'm moving to Scotland just after the election in anticipation of the inevitable divorce in a couple of years.

Yes I saw that too. It's depressing but honestly, we're going to lose some seats like that. It's going to be a weird situation where the middle class left and centre vote Labour out of fear of what the Tories will do to the working class who are voting for them.

Ah. So it's not in fact the tweeter who is spreading fake news, it's MF

It does indeed seem to be, even the posts he makes with links to back up his claims. The Tory one seems to have quite a few stories. Also there's no number of search results shown, did he manually count them?

Ok so - the first one tries to make a point about Brexit that I could have had time for, but it turns out it's all anecdotal with no supporting evidence, so I'm disregarding it. Also stress that remain isn't a left wing principle, it's a centrist principle. Second one the same, with the added point that the chap making the claims offers no insight into why the public voted the way it did whatsoever. The Sun, shockingly, actually makes a claim with some supporting evidence - so fair enough the Sun. Still disagree but at least there's an argument to be had about it. Comedy I rather fancy isn't a politically motivated line so much as a market based analysis line.

I've accepted this line for some time, but it's becoming clear to me that actually, those saying it on the right wing are absolute fruitcakes who struggle to summon up a rational thought more than once or twice per day. They "opinion" isn't worth the same as someone who isn't a total cretin. As such, I think we may now be reaching a point where it would be useful to actually see the BBC demonstrating any semblance of pro-left bias. Because the pro-right bias, as is often pointed out, is fairly hard to ignore.

I suppose it depends. Do they, elsewhere, call people murderers - instead of people convicted of murder. Or terrorists instead of 'people who committed acts of terror'? If they're consistent, I'll happily accept that argument.