Rayvin

Doesn't matter I guess, people need to vent so whatever. I'll just steer clear for a bit. Not in the best of moods myself anyway.

Or it highlights that Labour's position of being pro-Brexit in 2017 and being anti-Brexit in 2019, has killed them.

Fuck off mate, seriously. I've been up all night worrying about this and the last thing I need is someone pretending that a vote I cast 4 years ago has led us inevitably to this point. Such an inevitable point, I might add, that it somehow didn't happen in 2017.

If centrism was going to win big, the Lib Dems wouldn't have been obliterated last night either. This was either all about Brexit, or they fucked up too. Look man, the country isn't the same anymore. It has polarised indeed, and I'm really not sure the pool of voters left in the middle is all that big. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is, but the pool of voters on the solid left isn't small. How is Labour going to bring those two sides together again now? And believe it or not I mostly consider myself a centrist. The vast majority of what I've said on here over the years has been based on my reading of the situation, not personal preference. Labour's "radical left wing" policies poll well. How can that be a positive sign for a return to centrism?

SNP for me I guess. Suppose I should start looking into their post independence policies.

I agree with you, there really is very little evidence that centrism is what is needed. Maybe someone younger with a less checkered past though. But the schism is going to produce a centrist party anyway.

Does anyone reckon the Tories might just be right? Save yourself the heartache, fuck everyone else and worry about yourself only? I mean idk what the point in anything else is now.

It's a decade of Tory rule, either way. I'm amazed this isn't obvious tbh. The schism is going to end Labour for a generation, no matter who wins it.

Ok so we're at roughly 1.4m remain voters more than leave. I feel like it's worth people making a fuss about that in some form, try to pressure Johnson to get a less mental deal. Unlikely but worth trying.

I really think youth turnout will plummet after this one. Done everything they should have and were still let down. Why bother.

They could have removed Johnson and set up a GNU. Admittedly Corbyn would have needed to fuck off to bring the rebel Tories on side, but on balance I think it would have been the best outcome. Agree with the point on Labour but they aren't going to pick a centrist. I keep thinking Yvette Cooper would be the one to go for if we could, but it isn't going to happen. Already the Blairites and Corbynites are turning on each other. They'll split, I'm almost certain. Agree on the last point too, it's almost certainly what will happen. Though technically that space has been available for 4 years now and the Tories haven't stepped into it so far.

Aye but Strugeon knows Scotland is gone now. This isnt just a mandate for another referendum, its a 'come and get me' from the voters. At which point, incidentally, you will need a centrist Labour Party. Although to win power, that party will end up looking more like Cameron's Tories.

I couldn't sleep in the end. Found it cathartic to watch. I think there's enough of an argument about Brexit to give Momentum a viable case to retain control of Labour. They will think they can win this without Brexit. And they're quite possibly right. I'd be really interested to see good evidence of Labour failing simply because they were too left wing. Their policies polled well, even Watson has admitted that. Corbyn has been a liability for sure but again, no centrist was winning this fight from the position Labour was in. How could anyone solve the leave/remain split within the party? It's a shame but the actual vote tallies make me more forgiving of the result. We got played in the end. Never should have agreed to the election.

I think the Lib Dems might be finished as a political party... 8 seats (so far), albeit on 3m votes. Not good.

It honestly looks to me like the Brexit Party have hurt Labour more than the Tories, no matter what the guardian thinks. Labour are 7% down on vote share, losing out 3.5% to LDs, and 2.1% to Brexit Party. The latter damage was coming no matter who was in charge.

And there it is. Tory majority and 5 years of Boris Johnson.

Im aware I'm now talking to myself but its now 1.7m. Tbf though I assume that basically all of the remaining seats must be safe Tory ones, so the Remain numbers will fall significantly I guess. We lost Kensington because the LDs split the vote btw.

Remain now 1.5m ahead. This is the story as far as I'm concerned. The fucking useless remain parties failing to get any coherence together and criminally failing their voters. They should have sucked it up before agreeing an election and killed off Brexit with a GNU.

Honestly i'd be surprised if that exit poll turns out to be right. 150 seats to declare and Labour are on 172. So it's assuming that they only get 19 from the remaining 150. It's possible I guess, idk what the constituencies are, but i think they'll break 200. Edit - Tories take back Kensington.

Remain now over 1m votes ahead. I don't think much of this has a lot to do with Corbyn.. we've been shafted by the system.

That Remain voting pattern is holding up. Unless a large Tory swell comes in here, we're going to see a huge Brexit majority delivered against an overall majority share of the popular vote for Remain. I don't see how anyone could have won this in a GE. The problem is that the issue everyone's arguing about wasn't originally agreed by FPTP constituency voting, it was done by an overall majority. And the campaign Remain has fought has been largely on the assumption that most people want back in. Which seems true but they're not in the right areas. Which has ultimately shafted Labour. That doesn't make Corbyn a good leader, and it doesn't mean a centrist Remainer leading Labour couldn't have pulled over a few Tories. But it would have been an uphill fight to a very probably similar outcome IMO.

Swinson gone. Boris safe.

Mm, Corbyn was inevitable after this. Sounds like there'll be a transitioned departure though. Which means Momentum are staying in control. I'm gonna add here that the combined vote tally of the SNP, Labour and LDs is 750k up on the Tories. Brexit Party cancelled out by Greens and Plaid. If that pattern continues then we should be loud about it come the end.

And Raab has held his seat. Because of course. Lib Dems have had a shocker too tbh.

They aren't alone tbf to them. Overall vote share so far, Remain parties still ahead. It's a meaningless and slim comfort, but I'll take it. Labour's vote share is decent so far, should go up when London gets involved properly too.