Rayvin

If they've genuinely been in talks for 4 months then I do think he's serious about selling. No one was screaming at him to spend money this window - in fact, I find myself wishing he had spent about £40m less over the summer. His free tickets move has saved attendances, and while Bruce is playing a style of football last seen in prehistoric times, it's not really like there is united fan sentiment against the club. I also think that if a deal is 90% complete, there won't be any counter offers or anything like that. That shit will all have been settled on by now. They'll be in the very final stages of the legal discussions and the wording of the sale. Also, this was a leak - Its not like anyone knew anything about it for the 4 months prior to that, so why would anyone know anything more about it now? No one knows anything about counter offers, the feelings of the stakeholders, etc. Not unless Ashley himself has chosen to make all of this known, and as I've said, it'd be fucking bizarre for him to play that game for a mere two or three days of attention at a time when he doesn't even need it.

Then why have they spent 4 months allegedly in talks? We assume his reason for this charade is to win over the fans and secure renewals or whatever. But he's been under reasonable pressure with attendances, enough to offer free tickets even, and hasn't revealed this. It's come out now at a point where he's under relatively lower pressure because Bruce is muddling through well enough. It doesn't make any strategic sense for him to leak it now just for a two day boost before he kills it. And it also doesn't make any sense for him to waste 4 months talking to them and permitting due diligence if he has no intention of selling. So i think he must actually be serious about it.

Sigh. If this doesn't happen, we'll never be rid of him.

And that is the first post anyone has made that has given me pause in just accepting this. Back to hand wringing and internal conflict for me.

Yep. We can't stop this happening and aren't endorsing Saudi Arabia if we continue to go - they're the world's problem, this is just football. And I want to enjoy watching us again.

I admire you sticking to your guns on this tbh (even if in the end you're pulled along anyway). You really think you'll give it all up if it goes through? I'm not that principled I guess, but then everything I believed in politically is crashing and burning around me so nihilism is an easy out.

Fair statement if true.. but surely they have been? Have those strikes not been going on for weeks now?

What is his complaint? That Shrewsbury didn't just let them win?

Just to make sure that I'm not just missing this because I'm uninitiated into the sport - the BBC have used footage of a different black basketball player instead of footage of Bryant? dear me.. Cummings' reforms can't come soon enough

Oh I see, snakes means supporters who couldn't handle paying Ashley to punch them in the face. Not everyone is into S&M.

Snakes? Like who? Ashley brought in a decent number of snakes himself, I would have thought we'd be net zero on snakes at least.

Yes, we get suckered into it every single time. Although tbf to Ashley, he does seem to be able to sort of raise the stakes a bit each time. Not sure where we go from here though. North Korea next time out perhaps.

What is more unnerving, Gloom? A state that believes, culturally, based on religious teachings, in the oppression of women and other minority groups - and which believes that it is doing the right thing, as dismal as that view is? Or is it a state which professes to care about these considerations, but which uses the moral legitimacy it gains by notionally standing for such things in order to justify tearing around the middle east with reckless abandon, instigating wars, blowing up children, and funding any group at all (ISIS and indeed Saudi Arabia) as long as it fulfills a strategic objective to win power, resources, or financial gain? The Saudis, as wrong as they may be, have a cultural reason for being total asshats. The American government does not - it simply does not care on any level. Therefore, I suggest that the US is more psychotic than Saudi Arabia. EDIT - I really tried to resist making this post, I swear

I've given up on the world anyway - as Alex said earlier, if the world is going to burn either way, we may as well win something while it does.

Let's not do this here

If they're paying the full extent of the state sanctioned taxes on top of the charity work, then I could come around to agreeing with you. No Cayman Isles, no fucking around with tax returns, just directly what they owe. If they aren't, then their charity work is just PR. But let's not make this a politics thread - happy to have that discussion in the appropriate place but you're not going to change my rather extensive views on this with one off the cuff post I was broadly inferring that they've benefitted from a broken system rather than any personal implications anyway.

Was referring to Stavely and the Reubens tbf

Did he not steal Apple's GUI? Admits himself he should have paid more tax than he has, etc.

Also, as a general point about Ashley here - a year (or was it two?) ago, he turned down £250m from Staveley, holding out for £300m. Now he's managing to sell for £340m to broadly the same people. He's played a long game here, presumably aware that their interest was serious, and has potentially made himself £90m for two years of patience. I think he'll take it.

This. As far as I know, anyone who has managed to become a billionaire has done so through exploitation of a failing system and by standing on a great many others. That being said, Saudi Arabia is a broadly deplorable country and almost on par with the USA in terms of general psychotic behaviour. But whatever the situation here, this is football and not politics - they're gonna buy someone, it may as well be us.

If the government won't, and these guys will, it's hardly the worst outcome surely? Decent statement in favour of globalism too.

That's a reasonable view in most clubs maybe, but there's a solid contingent of non-plastic and non-fair weather fans who refuse to buy season tickets for NUFC these days. Well into the thousands. I would also suggest that you haven't perhaps factored in the economics of some people's situations, and that your research might be skewed a bit in favour of better off fans (who can afford to up-front a season ticket/have the job stability to commit to ongoing payments - and who may indeed be plastics despite this). At least it's worth noting down as a consideration. Either way, I suggest that with our club, you'll struggle to find anyone outside of Sunderland who doesn't think the owner is a cunt. Good luck though.

If we don't, I think it points to the Joelinton deal not being dodgy. Instead, it suggests that it was sheer incompetence, that no one involved is prepared to accept the hit to their ego on.

You're gonna be busy with that, I reckon. Good subject to have taken.

What is the MSc in? Congrats!