Rayvin

I don't think it's over yet - we'll have to see but the membership are the ones who decide. I won't vote RLB I don't think, and Rayner is falling in behind her. Not sure who I'll go for just yet but whatever Momentum and the party want isn't as important as the membership.

Also this argument that these criticisms are only happening because we're all in our bubbles. No. I read the Mail, the Sun, the Telegraph in the run up to that election. I'm not in a fucking bubble and I still think they're a shambles.

No one is claiming that. I don't think I've seen anyone state the the BBC is issuing instructions from on high. The problem is individual reporters who have a clear and apparent bias because they may or may not be sleeping with Boris Johnson. Also, I keep seeing people say "the BBC is far from perfect but..." And it's now coming over in the same way as "I'm not racist but..." because there is never any acknowledgement of where the BBC does fail. It's just a cursory remark they throw out there as a catch all for criticism. The reality is that if there isn't bias, there has been staggering incompetence which should absolutely see the lead political editor sacked amongst others in the interest of maintaining public trust. As any other organisation would probably do after that shitshow. So again, why isn't that happening? So my message to the BBC - if you want to trust, acknowledge your fuck ups and the implications of them, take remedial actions with the staff involved, and commit to a far higher standard going forward. If you aren't prepared to do that then just fuck off with these articles. Sorry mate but seriously, it's not excusable.

Not mouthpiece, just bias. And they're threatening it so far, not actually doing it. Also, if i was a right wing Tory government intent on various outlandish right wing shit, I would force the Overton window to expand whether it was already favourable or not.

LDs pretty consistent there. This is going to be the balancing act - how to keep the urban younglings engaged while speaking to working class England.

It was Swinson and the SNP who ignored it. I guess the latter got what they wanted, but Swinson delusionally thought she could get 100 seats. I obviously now understand why Labour wasn't keen. I've read a few leave voters (better educated ones) saying that the Tories were fucked until we gave them a lifeline. That Swinson should have sucked it up and agreed to have Corbyn as the figurehead for a GNU instead of throwing her toys out of the pram. And tbh they're right. This was Remain throwing away victory more than the Tories stealing it.

As it stands, when Scotland becomes independent under the current system, we lose about 50 progressive seats. We would have Tory governments for the rest of time despite the fact that most of the population would be voting against it. I don't care if Farage gets to become a bit more powerful because in the end, none of the other parties will agree to his more radical desires. The point will be thay Labour and the Tories will need to occasionally work together.

10m isn't that bad. It's higher than one of Blair's victories. But yes, coalition of the left! Except the LDs aren't the left..

I don't know, maybe we let him run with it a bit and build up momentum first. I'm just saying, if we're going to be pragmatic now then it makes sense. We're fucked without PR and I'm prepared to live with Farage if it saves us from 15 years of the Tories. If he gets the idea into the heads of the working classes, who he is far better suited to communicate with apparently, even if they pull the rug out we can pick up where he left off.

So we can work with a massive racist, or we can be ruled over by massive racists. I though pragmatism was the order of the day now?

I mean, it'll happen if we start actively trying for it. It's not like any of the big parties were remotely interested in it back in 2011. If Labour went all in on it with Farage in tow, I don't see why not.

Yeah but who cares about that if we get PR? It permanently fucks the right in this country. And probably the extreme left, but even so. It should be nectar from heaven for all you centrists

I mean that's it. Much as I hate the cunt if he now morphs into some kind of legitimate voice of the working class and weaponises their vote into achieving PR then I'll back him next time out. Tactical voting for Reform or any other party backing PR What have we come to..

Aye, that's the thing. Especially given that we outnumber them. We need proportional representation. Which is apparently Farage's next move politically, so maybe we need to get to a point where we're backing Farage..? Just to get the right outcome in the end...

I mean, that's assuming of course that the Tories have a fairly straight run over the next 5 year's which seems doubtful. I'm struggling with this though. There is a big part of me that wants to sack off caring about any of this and adopt the Tory "I'm alright, Jack" attitude. I mean I'm sceptical about where it is that the youthful and ideological left, who number several million based on this turnout, are going to cross over with the traditional working class. I'm not going to vote right wing on law and order. It's regressive, retarded and counter productive. I could be persuaded to vote to the right side of immigration since that battle has been lost so spectacularly - but many others couldn't be. It's not just about what the working class want. There aren't actually more of them than us. That's the problem here.

Let's unify the country by suggesting we scrap the license fee Something that will appeal across the political divide.

Did anyone else know that Corbyn won an international peace prize in 2017 along with Noam Chomsky? Apparently it was widely reported everywhere except in the UK, 'curiously'. https://www.rt.com/uk/412667-corbyn-chomsky-peace-prize-geneva/

BBC staff express fear of public distrust after election coverage https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/14/bbc-staff-express-fear-of-public-distrust-after-election-coverage?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard I don't think this is going to be enough from the BBC.

In other news, the US press has accused Bernie Sanders, a Jew, of being antisemitic. Wonder where they learned that trick...

I spent today chatting with my Dad and he is adamant that we need to have a northern leader for the party (Not Sir Starmer or Thornberry or any of the London "elites"), reconnect, get proportional representation, and never let this shit happen again. He wanted Raynor, Jarvis, someone like that. Was also adamant that getting into recriminations and blaming people for being "stupid" is pointless. We need to move on, learn from it and suck it up. I think he's right but it's annoying because I want to be angry.

We need to win the argument with the hard left first.. leaders later. We need to avoid the party falling apart.

How do we wrestle control off Momentum? Sign up to Labour now, if you want to change anything.

Step 1 - get a centrist, safe Blairite into power with loads of safe policies and a promise to implement PR. Step 2 - do all the left wing shit next time out cos under PR it looks a lot better: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-results-pr-alternative-voting-system-tories-labour-hung-a9246661.html

I also think the plan was too much. But I think it was clear that they had no expectation of winning power and implementing any of it. I actually think they worked out early doors that this election was going to be a disaster.

I'd readily take a Blair if it was one with a stronger commitment to left wing views concerning capitalism and the environment. Late stage-capitalism is killing the world at this point, and centrism just isn't going to fix that fast enough. I appreciate that we can't manage to get the public to agree that the left is the answer but whoever we put forward needs to appear centrist and push as far left as they can get away with. And more than anything else, they need to reform the political system to prevent the Tories ever getting back in, even if that means that Labour never get a majority again either. Wouldn't hurt for them to work on properly educating people either.