Rayvin

"these people" in this context meaning - people who vote based on what other people think of them And I don't really believe it's a group populated by many people at all.. Also, quick reality check - if someone is uneducated, are we saying it's now not ok to state this fact, and we have to use a term like... educationally deviant? Or maybe 'people who chose non-academic proficiencies and achievements'? The value of a human being has nothing to do with their level of educational attainment as we can see from the Tory party, but the level of educational achievement an individual has directly influences their ability to smoke out bullshit. So how should I refer to people who can't smoke it out, in future? EDIT - tbh, maybe it would be better to refer to intelligence rather than educated, as I've met some moronic educated people. But calling people unintelligent seems factually wrong and unfair...

I think Starmer might win it, penis or not. He could always claim to be trans I suppose, but I'd like to think even the middle class feminists can see the need for us not to get bogged down in this nonsense right now.

Not Cooper?

I didn't specifically say that tbh. I'm just making a general observation that the educated urbanites seem to vote our way. The problem seems to be more urban vs rural/towns than educated vs uneducated. Having said that, if these people are voting for their futures based on whether someone like me thinks they're educated or not they're beyond help. I've seen so many people saying "ha, that's what you get for insulting leave voters" and all that tells me is that leave voters are so immature that they're prepared to vote stupidly, ignore all reason, just because someone said something mean about them. I don't believe for a second they're that childish.

Yeah, I think it's an overreaction tbh. We need whoever is best placed to pummel Johnson, not another populist.

You can sign me up for whichever one of them wants to introduce gulags and abolish private property, naturally.

I'm currently tempted to vote Cooper, but will see what they all have to say first

What has Lisa Nandy done to deserve such high praise?

I'm genuinely unsure we can repair this faultline between the northern working classes and the urbanite educated. And I see no Labour leader capable of speaking to the former from the people considering running. Which makes me think we may as well just go for the smartest person in the room.

Aye, I've rejoined.

I mean, naturally he would do all the worst stuff right at the start though. It'll get less insane as we move forward.

Boris will claim it's Labour's fault for not stopping him, and the BBC will start talking about how ineffective the opposition was at a time of great national peril - and how only Boris can be trusted to do the work of both the government and the leader of the opposition.

True enough. But we need to bring them with us somehow.

He is indeed, it's the hard left and right who are rejecting it. Thus it isn't a left vs right thing anymore.

Globalism vs anti-globalism. The Tories have chosen their side and actually I think its clear that they've grasped the direction of travel here. We need to be globalist but with a positive vision for the future that pulls people with it. The Labour party stands no chance of realising that however. The working classes, I suspect, are lost to us.

Bedwetting over on RTG getting desperate now I guess...

I fucking hate Joris Bohnson. This is going to be 5 years of total bullshit.

But he's outlawing the extension... so what if the EU ask us for it, it's illegal?

So far, this is going completely as expected, feared and warned.

Wasn't serious mate. I read your posts, I know more or less what you're about. All I really mean is we need to stick together and not polarise.

Well idk man, we tend to always have a progressive majority in this country that is suppressed by FPTP. Maybe Australia is just full of right wingers.

Something something centrism something something.

I mean, who is surprised? This is what the spanners voted for.

We're in for at least 10 years of Tory rule if the people whose viewpoints Tom aligns with and the people whose viewpoints ewerk aligns with, can't meet in the middle. We need very similar policies next time out albeit more focused and less scattergun, and a flourish of patriotic zeal for the weak minded, along with media savvy. We need to be a moderate left wing party that is slick and ruthless.

Radical but potentially lethal to the Tories: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/16/lib-dems-tories-split-vote-labour There'd be an almight power struggle though.