Rayvin

Fragrant...

I feel like the actual clubs know this, it's just the fans who haven't quite caught up. Have any of the actual clubs properly tested us yet on this front? Not sure they have. Clearly they don't fancy their chances.

Aye, agreed on this. I also wonder if there's a wider thing at work here in terms of how the rest of the league perceives us too. If you look at our first full season under Howe, we did well because we exploited an arrogance in other teams who felt that we were still fairly shit based on the players we had - or that they fancied their chances against us. Forest are benefitting from that this season. Once we are title contenders and people take us seriously as a dangerous team, they're going to sit deeper, take fewer risks, try to react to us more. That allows us to dictate terms for how the game will be, same as the City/Arsenal/Liverpool teams. And I do wonder if that might actually be an overall positive in a lot of ways. We have to build into it for sure, get the right players to unlock low block defenses, but as much as our mentality around the club needs to evolve to seeing us as winners - I also wonder if everyone else's has to do the same. In other words, would Liverpool be so successful this season if everyone else believed they could get something off them and really went for it?

Sunderland voted for Brexit over concerns about immigration despite being 97% white at the time. Says it all.

I guess more than anything I'm just thinking that even if we had a second eleven with the same ability as the first eleven, would we be confident that we can beat Liverpool/City over a season or earn out the results we need consistently? The whole squad depth argument I do get, but is the first eleven good enough even so.

Some suggestion we've had an offer for Kelly from Fenerbahce?

Squad depth isn't something we're realistically going to address properly in the timeframe we're talking about for this current iteration of the side I don't think - so that suggests to me that the best this version of the side can reach is CL level, and then we need to go through an evolution to a new generation that may in time challenge for the title. That being the case then, maybe we should be open to selling some of our top tier players at 'the right prices' to support that overall transitional process - and that means we're relying on recruitment to be as good as it was under Ashworth (I do think the guy is a bit of a snake but you just can't argue with his success for us on this front), and that Howe can develop them into equivalent standards to the current team levels.

I know this is tongue in cheek but I do wonder what is really stopping us from doing this. Surely it would be more legit than selling hotels.

So first off, no I don't mean this season. I mean over the next 2-3 years which I think is probably roughly the runtime of this side while most players remain at their peak. I was thinking to myself yesterday that we talk about bringing in a right winger as a current main focus of transfer policy - so let's assume we manage that, and we bring in someone vaguely equivalent to Gordon. Does that alone turn us into title contenders? I'm not sure personally. I think it's a big step, probably the biggest single step we could take, but I'm not sure that this on its own is enough to put us into the conversation with Liverpool, Arsenal and City. So what would it take, what do they have that we don't? Is it even all playing staff, maybe some of it is structural. Other than the mental solidity that I can only assume we have to build up on the go, where else are we going to need to strengthen? It feels like a huge ask atm to take a side that we already think is very good, but which is really just on the edge of CL as far as wider rankings in the division and turn them into a side which could challenge for the title. But then again, where might we be if we hadn't shipped easy points to weaker teams earlier in the season? Just curious on people's thoughts for the next few years really - how we get from where we are, to where we want to be.

Sorry but I just clocked the relative attendances for the FA Cup games They have no business saying a damn thing atm.

Gemmill is a weeb huh. Written in the stars, that one.

Shame they didn't suspend their 'two term' rule for him tbh. He was the best President they had in living memory.

As I think I said a few days ago - what the fuck is Tesla doing letting him run around like this man This cannot possibly be good for their brand.

That is a good shout mind. Moyes back at Everton would probably be exactly what they need. And it would wind up their fans.

My dad is an Everton fan. And I bet if I texted him right now, despite those 174 times, he'd not have remembered that either.

Yes, I think in heart of hearts, I'm going to be right there with you.

Arteta played for Everton?? So much is explained now...

I hope Howe ends up as a Ferguson esque manager for us tbh. I hope he's here most of his career. Results have to be good, he eventually has to win things, but honestly wouldn't it be great if he went the distance with the club.

Aye, really enjoyed that. Love seeing Howe get praise as well - the level of insight "armchair" fans are able to give on this stuff these days is far beyond what they're paying the pundits for tbh.

Can't even remember who he managed now

Aye but that's sort of what I mean, you'd think he'd turn his nose up at them.

Only at Arsenal, his 'home' club, is he going to get 5 years and £800m spending, while failing to deliver any trophies. No other club in the top ten is going to touch that level of failure. There's no evidence that he can really build a team and he has had ample time to do so. Every single year, Arsenal look like the same team they've been for the past two decades, give or take some temporary form periods. They are still soft as shite, they are still mentally weak, and they are still ponderous. All Arteta seems to have done this year is hire a set piece coach to give the team a new dimension which, according to their fans and even Walcott, they've leaned into so much that they've forgotten all the other things they did well. I would say Saka has more to do with their performance over the past two or three years than Arteta. That said - not being able to cut top ten in the premier league doesn't make him a bad manager. It just means he's not a very good one. I would say maybe Man Utd would take him but then they're not top ten anymore. EDIT - my bad, seems he won an FA cup 5 years ago. Before he'd had the time to 'build his team'.

When the Arsenal gig goes wrong, will Arteta work in the PL again? I'd say no. The top ten wouldn't have him, and the bottom ten would be 'beneath' him. He'll go back to Spain, beneath the top two big teams and probably end up with some midtable side. Maybe Italy at a push. The guy just doesn't have it.

"I will take all the shit for you guys again, eh?" Has he ever actually done that.

Yep. I mean in Arteta's case, they were talking before the game about how there is a rivalry between him and Howe. No there fucking isn't man, there's a rivalry on Arteta's side for sure, but to imagine that Howe gives the guy any more thought than any other manager is nonsense. So in this case, while I totally agree with the Leeds point, I would also say that Arteta himself psychologically hinders his team in this fixture because he has no chill whatsoever, and because his players will know how much getting shown up by us bothers him. The reality is Howe cooked him alive with a perfectly executed gameplan that Arteta didn't anticipate. He did not expect us to attack them. He had no answer for it. That should have been his post match interview. That might have relieved some pressure on his players. "Yeah we played well but I failed to anticipate that Newcastle would attack us so willingly, we don't see that very often at home and it's something I will definitely be more aware of in future." How fucking hard would that have been.