Happy Face

If Wigan won the Premiership the next three seasons running, their league title haul would rise percentage wise faster than any club in England. Staggering ignorance which is beyond comprehension. I'm sorry like but that is just ignorant beyond fucking belief. Jean Marie Le Pen's, Front National, almost won the fucking french presedential election in 2002, that's the equivolent of the NF, getting more votes than the tories and Lib Dems and running Labour close. In Holland their far right party again came second in their elections. In this country there is a total outcry if the BNP, who aren't as extreme as "Front National" for instance get 3% of the vote, and the only places they have any chance of doing anything are shitholes like Burnley and Wigan, whereas an attractive thriving developed country like Holland and France gives the far right over a third of the vote. You don't need to show ignorance, just read things without spouting baseless shite. You don't even need facts and figures to compare racism in this country favourably with places like Spain and Italy, where in many places it's almost tolerated that racist abuse will occur in stadiums, the only time there's an outcry is when there's international focus, FIFA can't turn a blind eye, and their authorities have to say something to save face. Fuck sake this a racist country. The far right do everything they can to contest anti facism rallies in Birmingham and London and the most they can drum up is two fucking hundred. Incredible, incredible post by Happy Face. I never said we're the MOST racist, so you will find countries where elections bring about worse results, or where racism among football fans is less comprehensively policed. You're using anecdotal evidence to argue against facts (now corrected by Meenzer ) and claiming I'M the ignorant one. That's incredible.

Pedantry hat on again, but wouldn't it be a bit difficult for the 23 non-EU members to vote for more far-right MEPs? Valid point. I hope Stevie doesn't take being in the top 30% of racist EU countries rather than the top 20% as any kind of vindication.

I'm every bit as proud of our forefathers defending the sovereignty of other nations, and our own, as you are. Our finest hour. Germany, an occupying force, and their allies having invaded Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania needed someone to step up and we (amongst others) did so heroically. Don't you think it tarnishes the memory of those who died for freedom and democracy to be an ally to the US now. Themselves an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan and primary support for Israel's occupation of Palestine.

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different. Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament. With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread. What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question. I was alluding to the fact no one definitively knows 100% without question why it happened. 99% of conspiracy theories can easily be dismissed, maybe this one can too, but there is a lot of aspects of the final report that were ambiguous to say the least. I'm a bit confused how someone can not necessarily be convinced who was responsible for 9/11... but can still be comfortable with the scale of retribution taken against people categorically documented to have no involvement whatsoever. Are you thick? This thread should have nothing to do with Iraq or Afghanistan, I'm disgusted it has, and the fish had it spot on. It was specifically about the events of that day, but as ever the thread has descended in to a circus. However I will answer your point, even though as I said it's a huge disrespect to the dead of September 11th, when that's all the programme was about. As for retribution, maybe that was what it was about for the yanks, but I think definitely part of their overall aim was to bring democracy and at least a degree of freedom to Iraq so the people could choose who was running them. Maybe it could be that the yanks wanted democracy to use them as puppets, but it's questionable as to whether it was total retribution. Many Iraqi's seem to say life is getting better there, even though terrorism is still rife, or I presume that's the western propaganda machine in over drive, I'm sure people like you believe that's what it is. From the British point of view, we were clearly sold lies, I can't be 100% sure but I think it's possible we went in there with good intentions, to help source their nuclear capability, and that's what I think, your question about feeling comfortable with our intentions in going there, if that is the truth, and I think it probably is, yes I feel comfortable with the reasons WE (the UK) went there. As an aside, I've read many of your posts on related subjects, I feel worse about people like you than I do about people who preach radical muslim hate. If this thread is simply a tribute to the fallen, why mention you have so many questions about why it happened? I thought that was an opening for a debate on why it happened. Why go on about "these evil bastards, the scurge of the world"? It happened because (to quote Glenn Greenwald) for the US "Constant war has been the normal state of affairs. In the 64 years since the end of WWII, they have started and fought far more wars and invaded and bombed more countries than any other nation in the world -- not even counting the numerous wars fought by their clients and proxies. Those are just facts. History will have no choice but to view the U.S. -- particularly in its late imperial stages -- as a war-fighting state." That's not propaganda. And if you think the US like to spread democracy and freedom out of the goodness of their hearts, you should take a look at the number of democracies they've dismantled in favour of pro-US dictatorships....though I think you probably already know about that. Cheers for the slight. I think you're a canny lad meself.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread. What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question. I was alluding to the fact no one definitively knows 100% without question why it happened. 99% of conspiracy theories can easily be dismissed, maybe this one can too, but there is a lot of aspects of the final report that were ambiguous to say the least. I'm a bit confused how someone can not necessarily be convinced who was responsible for 9/11... but can still be comfortable with the scale of retribution taken against people categorically documented to have no involvement whatsoever.

We were directly responsible for twice as many deaths than 9/11 in less than a week at the start of the invasion with shock and awe.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread. What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question.

Really good film. 9/10 Very unique and well thought through. Really enjoyed it too. It was almost disappointing when the action really got started, because up to then it had all been so perfectly real, then I was reminded of Red Matter with some of the more inexplicable stretches to move the story on ("I'm making a bomb!"?), but it was short lived and the later action was superb, really lived up to time dedicated to introducing the characters. Amazing effects too. Perfectly integrated CGI across the board.

All thanks to #1 on his speed dial being Gerry Francis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine...agewanted=print Apologies for posting another lengthy article on economics so soon after the one i posted in the Shock Doctrine thread, but this is a bigger crime than Iraq, Enron, Megrahi, Biggs, Wacko Jacko's doctor, Afghanistan, Pakistan and FITwatch combined...and the banks still have the same power to do it all again.

Nice straight answer there Fopper. Try again I think Fop's implying (in his own inimitable, veiled, cryptic style) that he boycoutts the police service, the NHS, all drug companies, the criminal prosecution service, the British education system, the USA and many many more. As to use them having ripped the shit out of them so frequently would be the height of hypocriticism. Fop has bouuiicotted more companies than we've had hot dinners apparently. He's Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Boooooooooooooooooycotted the thread.

Nice straight answer there Fopper. Try again I think Fop's implying (in his own inimitable, veiled, cryptic style) that he boycoutts the police service, the NHS, all drug companies, the criminal prosecution service, the British education system, the USA and many many more. As to use them having ripped the shit out of them so frequently would be the height of hypocriticism.

Like balls?

There's always an alternative cold fizzy drink.

Yes, that's right, sentences should reflect the seriousness crime. So in your opinion how would Biggs serving 30 years do that? You've lost me now mate. I never said it would if he had. What's this got to do with Jack Straw saying in July... "Mr Biggs chose to serve only one year of a 30 year sentence before he took the personal decision to commit another offence and escape from prison, avoiding capture by travelling abroad for 35 years whilst outrageously courting the media. I am refusing the Parole Board's recommendation for parole. Biggs chose not to obey the law and respect the punishments given to him - the legal system in this country deserves more respect than this. It was Mr Biggs's own choice to offend and he now appears to want to avoid the consequences of his decision. I do not think this is acceptable." ..to gladly releasing him a month later. So you're saying it wouldn't have done if he had? No. I'm saying it was a political decision made with Megrahi in mind, rather than an individual decision made with justice in mind. I'd also add you're thick as fuck.

Why? But why just those two if you're against corporate injustice? Because those 2 are most famously cuntish I've heard about and are very easy to avoid. I also mentioned IBM. I wouldn't wear Catepillar stuff anyway....or drive a ford. I'm not really in the Chevron or Lockheed markets. I know Walmart are twats, so I try to avoid Asda too...but it's been made difficult to do that living in South Shields...and as I said, I'm not militant enough to put myself out too much for this stuff. But wherever there's a Coca Cola, there's a Pepsi and wherever there's nestle coffee...there's Tetleys tea bags. So you only avoid them if 1) you don't like them anyway, 2) have an easy substitute, 3) both of the prior? Yep. What do you boycott?

Yes, that's right, sentences should reflect the seriousness crime. So in your opinion how would Biggs serving 30 years do that? You've lost me now mate. I never said it would if he had. What's this got to do with Jack Straw saying in July... "Mr Biggs chose to serve only one year of a 30 year sentence before he took the personal decision to commit another offence and escape from prison, avoiding capture by travelling abroad for 35 years whilst outrageously courting the media. I am refusing the Parole Board's recommendation for parole. Biggs chose not to obey the law and respect the punishments given to him - the legal system in this country deserves more respect than this. It was Mr Biggs's own choice to offend and he now appears to want to avoid the consequences of his decision. I do not think this is acceptable." ..to gladly releasing him a month later.

Why? But why just those two if you're against corporate injustice? Because those 2 are most famously cuntish I've heard about and are very easy to avoid. I also mentioned IBM. I wouldn't wear Catepillar stuff anyway....or drive a ford. I'm not really in the Chevron or Lockheed markets. I know Walmart are twats, so I try to avoid Asda too...but it's been made difficult to do that living in South Shields...and as I said, I'm not militant enough to put myself out too much for this stuff. But wherever there's a Coca Cola, there's a Pepsi and wherever there's nestle coffee...there's Tetleys tea bags.

Why?

Yes, that's right, sentences should reflect the seriousness crime.

So you are basically saying that a shoplifter that refuses to repent for their crime should be held for longer than say someone that is convicted of killing 100's of people but does go through the motions to satisfy the system, and that that is "justice"? An all new and spectacular low. So what exactly are you saying then? That parole cases should be considered individually.

Just A Minute Never listened to it before. Canny funny like.