Happy Face

Educate me Stevie. Give me the detail. I'm not a proud man, I'll gladly admit to being wrong. I've done it once already in this thread. Convince me.

There's about 200,000 non Brits in receipt of state benefits in total. 6.7 million foreigners are resident. So under 3% of immigrants are 'benefit scrounges'. The Uk population is over 61 million so about 55 million are British. 6 million of those are on benefits which is 11% If anything immigrants are covering benefits for British residents at a far higher rate than Brits are paying foreigners benefits. source for these figures please cos i cant believe that only 200000 immigrants (legal and illegal) are claiming benefits. maybe 200000 in london perhaps but countrywide? extremely skeptical. 199,667 non-British citizens in receipt of state benefits House of Lords debate The number of people from overseas living in the UK reached a record high of 6.7 million last year BBC The total number of people claiming benefits in the UK has been forecast to rise to more than 6 million when official figures are published later this month, according to the Conservative think-tank Policy Exchange. The latest official figures, published in February, showed that the total was 5.8 million. The Independent hmmmmmm, not quite. firstly these figures are 12 months old. in the meantime weve gone through the worst recession this country has ever had which means they'll have been an awful lot of job losses, hence more on benefits. secondly, it only discribes non british, ie people who dont hold a british passport, not immigrants. thirdly, unless im mistaken, it doesnt take into account the arrivals from the eu? such a defragmented approach to reporting stats is bound to cause confusion. 2 of them are from within the last 5 months. one is 11 months old. If you can get more recent figures. I'll bow down to them. Given that most immigrants are skilled workers allowed in to fill a jobs gap it's unlikely that they've seen more lay-offs than the British population. Those foreigners that have lost work (like the polish losing out on building work) tend to go home, while job-losses for British citizens can only increase the number of British benefit claimants and make my case even more strongly.

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda. They support the cause, 50% in this country understood and supported the July 7 bombings in London. Fuck free speech you support that you are an enemy of the state, and should be removed. Where's that stat from? I don't understand your second sentance. Channel Four. No link or owt? Muslims in Britain ARE the most anti western in all of Europe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion But only to the degree that "Across the board, Muslim attitudes in Britain more resembled public opinion in Islamic countries in the Middle East and Asia than elsewhere in Europe. " Which, as I quoted above, is that a tiny minority support violence. how naive are you Terribly. I need you to educate me.

That means for every foreign benefit claimant, there are 33 foreign workers. But for every British benefit claimant, there's only 8 British workers. They come over here subsidising our system....

There's about 200,000 non Brits in receipt of state benefits in total. 6.7 million foreigners are resident. So under 3% of immigrants are 'benefit scrounges'. The Uk population is over 61 million so about 55 million are British. 6 million of those are on benefits which is 11% If anything immigrants are covering benefits for British residents at a far higher rate than Brits are paying foreigners benefits. source for these figures please cos i cant believe that only 200000 immigrants (legal and illegal) are claiming benefits. maybe 200000 in london perhaps but countrywide? extremely skeptical. 199,667 non-British citizens in receipt of state benefits House of Lords debate The number of people from overseas living in the UK reached a record high of 6.7 million last year BBC The total number of people claiming benefits in the UK has been forecast to rise to more than 6 million when official figures are published later this month, according to the Conservative think-tank Policy Exchange. The latest official figures, published in February, showed that the total was 5.8 million. The Independent

Like the Sinclair C5 In what way? Watch the video, OSX is made for that shit. I'm always wary of "in the future we'll all..." type predictions. I can't see touch screens catching on...because after 7 hours at my desk my arms will be knackered. ...as much as I like Minority report and throwing thinks around a giant screen, people want to be lazier, not do MORE work.

There's about 200,000 non Brits in receipt of state benefits in total. 6.7 million foreigners are resident. So under 3% of immigrants are 'benefit scrounges'. The Uk population is over 61 million so about 55 million are British. 6 million of those are on benefits which is 11% If anything immigrants are covering benefits for British residents at a far higher rate than Brits are paying foreigners benefits.

Like the Sinclair C5

Half nine start, 90 minute dinner and finished for half 4. Typical civil servants.

I found it myself Stevie. Looks like it's less than half the number you suggest.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-39...-justified.html

Propaganda, I'm on about the ones in THIS country, holding our passport. It was something like 50%. As i said to Axeman, using the numbers that support your argument and dismissing the ones that don't means it's pointless even talking about it. It's the definition of ignorance. Irony there though. Irony? Which numbers have i dismissed?

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda. They support the cause, 50% in this country understood and supported the July 7 bombings in London. Fuck free speech you support that you are an enemy of the state, and should be removed. Where's that stat from? I don't understand your second sentance. Channel Four. No link or owt? Muslims in Britain ARE the most anti western in all of Europe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion But only to the degree that "Across the board, Muslim attitudes in Britain more resembled public opinion in Islamic countries in the Middle East and Asia than elsewhere in Europe. " Which, as I quoted above, is that a tiny minority support violence.

Propaganda, I'm on about the ones in THIS country, holding our passport. It was something like 50%. As i said to Axeman, using the numbers that support your argument and dismissing the ones that don't means it's pointless even talking about it. It's the definition of ignorance.

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda. They support the cause, 50% in this country understood and supported the July 7 bombings in London. Fuck free speech you support that you are an enemy of the state, and should be removed. Where's that stat from? I don't understand your second sentance.

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda. I dont blame them either for supporting al qaeda. however i will strive to make sure that they dont carry the fight to us. Edit: and if that means they cant come here or should be kicked out then so be it They DON'T support them let alone join the fight. i think i may have misunderstood your post Happy. doesnt change my feelings towards those who do support al queerer or whatever its called. you know, like the fucka's who preach outside certain mosques telling all who'll listen that they should kill the 'infidel'. I dont know of any COE vicars or priests or whatever they call themselves nowadays who still preach the whole fire & brimstone version of the bible outside of their places of worship. Aye. I think they're fucking idiots too. They are a tiny minority though. The idea that such fucked up demagogues can change our way of life pisses me off more than I piss Stevie off. I know the pope still preaches people shouldn't wear a condom in Africa where AIDS is killing millions. Does anybody close to that high in the muslim church support a similarly evil policy.

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda. I dont blame them either for supporting al qaeda. however i will strive to make sure that they dont carry the fight to us. Edit: and if that means they cant come here or should be kicked out then so be it They DON'T support them let alone join the fight.

Nor do the billions of muslims around the globe support Al Qaeda.

I see the US Senate have given Obama authority to put sanctions in place against Iran. ...annd the world keeps turnin....

I don't honestly know Stevie - when you say you aren't and describe how you think in broad terms it rings completely true that you aren't. On the other hand I think some of your generalisations go beyond simply being "un-pc" (which I don't mind at all by the way). I think you have an over the top sense of Englishness (and Geordieness for that matter) which is a bit too black and white (no pun intended). I think you need a bit more realism on some things. I see the big picture, and it's clouded with people who are too much of one thing or too much of the other. Classic examples being Happy Face and Renton. Happy Face deeply and I mean deeply pisses me off, everything on this issue, every fuckin thing is the governments fault, our fault as a nation and as a people, it's never ever the fault of these economic refugees or muslims in general never their fault, we are the root cause of everything, and I can't tell you how much it pisses me off reading his bollocks. You don't know how happy that makes me. Just to respond a bit more seriously cos I hate to think of you sitting there punching holes in the plaster. I strongly believe that government can't do everything. They have to strive to keep their citizens as safe as possible by minimising any threat to the nation. They cannot ever account for EVERY situation. There'll always be lunatics who are 100% responsible for their actions. There'll always be foreign nationals that want to get into our country to escape misery where they live which we are not responsible for. However, if government action abroad exacerbates those problems then they should be absolutley blamed for doing so. By blaming only the immigrants or the terrorists you're completely ignoring the root cause. Which suggests you don't see as much of the big picture as you claim. Why would I blame muslims in general for the apalling acts of a few any more than i would blame you for the Heysel disaster?

I don't honestly know Stevie - when you say you aren't and describe how you think in broad terms it rings completely true that you aren't. On the other hand I think some of your generalisations go beyond simply being "un-pc" (which I don't mind at all by the way). I think you have an over the top sense of Englishness (and Geordieness for that matter) which is a bit too black and white (no pun intended). I think you need a bit more realism on some things. I see the big picture, and it's clouded with people who are too much of one thing or too much of the other. Classic examples being Happy Face and Renton. Happy Face deeply and I mean deeply pisses me off, everything on this issue, every fuckin thing is the governments fault, our fault as a nation and as a people, it's never ever the fault of these economic refugees or muslims in general never their fault, we are the root cause of everything, and I can't tell you how much it pisses me off reading his bollocks. You don't know how happy that makes me.

totally agree, however, thanks to the many lies and falsehoods ive been fed for the last 13 yrs i tend to treat such figures with extreme skepticism. Parky esque some would say!! fuckin hell, ive just looked out of the window. its a fuckin whiteout atm!! Then why did you use the one in seven stat on prison numbers? I think what you mean is treat the figures that don't conform to your preconceptions with skepticism while those that enforce them you deem trustworthy and pertinent to the debate.

I'd be interested in a link to that study. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong but I'd guess it's bullshit. Although it is difficult to know how many people reside in the UK illegally, a Home Office study released in March 2005 estimated a population of between 310,000 and 570,000 ... They suggest the Home Office has underestimated the numbers of unauthorised migrants by between 15,000 and 85,000. So at the most, there's about 650,000 illegals in the UK. That's the total. The Office for national statistics says that about 600,000 immigrants legally come to the UK every year. Rather than legals being a drop in the ocean compared to illegals, it's clearly the exact opposite and Illegals are dwarfed by legals. Moving on, I agree, illegal immigration is a problem. How would you like to see the policy towards it shift. Most illegals try to evade capture, but let's say you could identify them all. What would you do with them. Before you answer, remember.... ippr has estimated that if the Government made current illegal migrants legal (regularised) they would pay well in excess of £1bn in tax per year. ippr has also estimated that removing all illegal (irregular) migrants in the UK could cost up to twelve billion pounds and take around twenty five years. http://www.ippr.org/pressreleases/?id=3483 nice numbers Happy, but as a retort, when did this current government ever get its figures right? If you're not working from the best numbers available then you can only work from perception. A Daily Mail reading BNP voter living in Bradford has a completely different perception to a Gaurdian reading Green voter in Surrey. Basing the argument on perceptions you can only come to a Renton/Leazes style impasse. The best numbers are far more likely reveal the truth. EDIT: Like above where I was glad to admit i was wrong, because the numbers (despite being 6 years old) are the best I could find and they back you up. I guess where I go wrong is expecting other people to respect the facts.

Time to gladly admit I'm wrong... http://www.crimlinks.com/Prison%20Population.htm One in 7.6 are either non-British or have no nationality recorded.

I'd be interested in a link to that study. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong but I'd guess it's bullshit. Although it is difficult to know how many people reside in the UK illegally, a Home Office study released in March 2005 estimated a population of between 310,000 and 570,000 ... They suggest the Home Office has underestimated the numbers of unauthorised migrants by between 15,000 and 85,000. So at the most, there's about 650,000 illegals in the UK. That's the total. The Office for national statistics says that about 600,000 immigrants legally come to the UK every year. Rather than legals being a drop in the ocean compared to illegals, it's clearly the exact opposite and Illegals are dwarfed by legals. Moving on, I agree, illegal immigration is a problem. How would you like to see the policy towards it shift. Most illegals try to evade capture, but let's say you could identify them all. What would you do with them. Before you answer, remember.... ippr has estimated that if the Government made current illegal migrants legal (regularised) they would pay well in excess of £1bn in tax per year. ippr has also estimated that removing all illegal (irregular) migrants in the UK could cost up to twelve billion pounds and take around twenty five years. http://www.ippr.org/pressreleases/?id=3483