Happy Face

"What the hell are you doing here? Looking at a block of granite, some soil and some flowers? I'm deed man, get yasel to the pub or something"

You can't say TV money will cover wages because we might get relegated. We're being positioned financially as a club that can handle relegation without a complete overhaul. I dont think we will be relegated, and i think we will be even stronger next year but i see your point. But....could this not also be a sign of ambition? Setting us up like this means we operate at a profit....we stay up year on year, keep collecting TV monies and so on then we CAN afford that sort of lay out in the summer no? I think it's a stretch to call it ambitious....but they got grief when they didn't have relegation clauses in players contracts and we went down so it's an understandable approach to ensure we could cope with it. I think your hope is predicated on our belief that Ashley will not use any excess funds to satisfy the debt, but to improve the squad within means. There's very few clubs without debts...and even less who don't use TV money to cover those debts. Fingers crossed. They've made so much noise about not taking a penny out of the club, it would be embarrassing for them to start as soon as they've settled the ship...that's not to say they won't.

WHERE HAVE I EVER CLAIMED OTHERWISE? Answer this or you're making even more stuff up, arguing with yourself. You can't answer this with a direct link to a quote where I have claimed otherwise, because I never have. That is why people think you're a senile fuck. Do you comprehend this? However, we weren't reaching the league positions or champions league qualifications when your man left, meaning by your own logic that the club was ALREADY IN DECLINE Do you get it? no, it wasn't, and I've explained why it wasn't. The club is in decline because the revenues have dived, and the structures and ambitions have changed accordingly/as a result of. Basic stuff this. Your man will be ecstatic to finish 10th, this is his aim, the revenues have dived, our best players realise they are playing for a micky mouse club and so don't want to stay anymore, and you and your dad say the club isn't in decline ?? As discussed in this threrad, the revenues for this season look like being up there with the highest revenues the previous board ever achieved. They only exceeded £90m 3 times. Obviously this is by virtue of the fact that TV money has been thrown at the club far in excess of what was previously paid, but it still makes your point about diving diving revenues moot, since they've clearly rebounded now. On the other hand when Freddy was here revenue dived from £96m in 2003 to £83m in 2006. You cannot ignore that drop (which recovered) and pillory the drop under Ashley (which recovered). how long ago was this ? When will the club be 14th in footballs rich list again and investing on talent on the pitch to attempt to consolidate the position of the club at such a level ? Are you saying, if this ambition is brought to an end, the club isn't in decline ? I don't think we will invest enough to be competing with the best any time soon. I totally agree with you. I'm saying you can't use declining revenue as a barometer of our decline without accepting the similar decline (and recovery) under Shepherd. The difference is, under Shepherd the revenue bounced back but there was massive outlay on the squad, and no improvemnent on the pitch or in league position. Under Ashley, the revenue has bounced back on virtually no outlay whatsoever on players, and an iimproved league position too.

You can't say TV money will cover wages because we might get relegated. We're being positioned financially as a club that can handle relegation without a complete overhaul.

That bit in bold. Quote me, or find me any sort of quote which suggests my 'acceptance' of such expectations. Otherwise you're just making stuff up AGAIN. YOU really COULD make it up wtf are you wittering about man You ARE accepting it. If not, accept that your man might not reach the league positions, champions league and european qualifications, and bring the players to the club that his predecessors did ? He won't do it The club is in decline. Expectations are down, revenues are down, ambitions are down. Your man Dekka has just said so......10th is the aim WHERE HAVE I EVER CLAIMED OTHERWISE? Answer this or you're making even more stuff up, arguing with yourself. You can't answer this with a direct link to a quote where I have claimed otherwise, because I never have. That is why people think you're a senile fuck. Do you comprehend this? However, we weren't reaching the league positions or champions league qualifications when your man left, meaning by your own logic that the club was ALREADY IN DECLINE Do you get it? no, it wasn't, and I've explained why it wasn't. The club is in decline because the revenues have dived, and the structures and ambitions have changed accordingly/as a result of. Basic stuff this. Your man will be ecstatic to finish 10th, this is his aim, the revenues have dived, our best players realise they are playing for a micky mouse club and so don't want to stay anymore, and you and your dad say the club isn't in decline ?? As discussed in this threrad, the revenues for this season look like being up there with the highest revenues the previous board ever achieved. They only exceeded £90m 3 times. Obviously this is by virtue of the fact that TV money has been thrown at the club far in excess of what was previously paid, but it still makes your point about diving diving revenues moot, since they've clearly rebounded now. On the other hand when Freddy was here revenue dived from £96m in 2003 to £83m in 2006. You cannot ignore that drop (which recovered) and pillory the drop under Ashley (which recovered).

Our TV money in the PL last time was £38m...so we're £17m better off now according to your £55m figure But like I said above, other turnover was £12m down....and I can't see it rising due to PL status so it's only really £5m better off. Last time we were in the PL we turned a loss of £32.5m though. So assuming the same wages...we'd be running a loss of £27m. These accounts say the wages were £47m, down from £71m.... a £24m saving. That leaves us a £3m loss....before you add Ben Arfa and Tiote's wages (assuming they're more than Carroll's) These are all fag packet numbers, but I think the assumption of a hefty profit this time next year is rash. You are missing player sales. Most of the players that have left us will have been on payment plans. As the books are April-to-April, we'll have the second year payments to include. HBA wages will be picked up via the insurance. We weren't including player sales...that was agreed. To tell the truth I hadn't realised that TV money has increased by almost a third for PL clubs this season and it is going to make a hell of a difference. Turnover should exceed £90m like Stevie says, so with a wage bill at around 55% I can't think of any reason we shouldn't have a few million spare to spend on players...or to pay off some of the debt. Still can't see £50m like. Few million spare...not including player sales as well? In that case, do you think, we stay up, we make a profit this season, pay off some of the debt to FMA AND spend between 20-30mil? Looks healthy to me. I don't think Ashley will take the money out of the club...but I don't think we have £35million burning a hole in our pocket from Carroll either. Like JawD says, the pie has been cut up into many wedges and allocated to future costs so that Ashley doesn't have to pump anything in when things get tight again. For example a good chunk will be used to cover the outlay on Ben Arfa and Tiote and their wages for the next 5 years. If we do spend £10m on a player in the summer then Ashley also wants £10m set aside to cover their wages for 5 years. He counts that as a £20m outlay and i can't see us going much further beyond that.

Our TV money in the PL last time was £38m...so we're £17m better off now according to your £55m figure But like I said above, other turnover was £12m down....and I can't see it rising due to PL status so it's only really £5m better off. Last time we were in the PL we turned a loss of £32.5m though. So assuming the same wages...we'd be running a loss of £27m. These accounts say the wages were £47m, down from £71m.... a £24m saving. That leaves us a £3m loss....before you add Ben Arfa and Tiote's wages (assuming they're more than Carroll's) These are all fag packet numbers, but I think the assumption of a hefty profit this time next year is rash. You are missing player sales. Most of the players that have left us will have been on payment plans. As the books are April-to-April, we'll have the second year payments to include. HBA wages will be picked up via the insurance. We weren't including player sales...that was agreed. To tell the truth I hadn't realised that TV money has increased by almost a third for PL clubs this season and it is going to make a hell of a difference. Turnover should exceed £90m like Stevie says, so with a wage bill at around 55% I can't think of any reason we shouldn't have a few million spare to spend on players...or to pay off some of the debt. Still can't see £50m like.

however this brings us back full circle, anyone renewing a ST is at the mercy of the club deciding where they sit. Which is why they wont relocate the bulk of L7 moves to L4. The answer is to cancel the ST renewal and start a new one from scratch, that way they dont know where you were sat previously. Pay an extra few hundred quid for the same seat and lose all your accumulated away points for the privelige? No thanks.

They've slagged off the previous regime enough for front loading to assume they don't do it themselves. If season ticket money on a three year deal isn't spread over the 3 years and accounted for year on year they're bigger liars and arseholes than i thought.

What's that based on though? If we've accounted for TV money and player wages without showing that kind of profit, where do you see it coming from? 23 * 43000 = 989K bums on seats last year. 19*47000 = 893K bums on seats this year So there's less matchday revenue being generated this season. I've not seen any major announcements for sponsoership or new major kit deals. You're ignoring something there as well regarding the ticket revenue. When we got relegated we made £15.6m from ST sales £11m last season, but some are reporting gate receipts went up, which is true from £5.5m to £6.5m which is true, but the overall money's generated from ticket sales regardless of ST/our pay as you go went down from £21.1m to £17.5m. This season our average has gone up, it will be 5,000 higher than last season ticket prices have went through the roof £43 cheapest v Sunderland/Man Utd etc...while the ST sales only went up 1,000, so we should get back near the £21m gate receipts money we had in 2009, another example of it going up. I think that's all negated by having 10% more people coming through the gates (paying the same for pies pints crisps and pop) in the championship than we have in the PL. Point is, it's debateable, and J69's £50m figure is cloud cuckoo land. The pies and beer has been outsourced since 2008 so will likely be the same year on year. I know it's outsourced...but I'm sure it's up for tender and the contract value fluctuates with our fortunes and our gates.

What's that based on though? If we've accounted for TV money and player wages without showing that kind of profit, where do you see it coming from? 23 * 43000 = 989K bums on seats last year. 19*47000 = 893K bums on seats this year So there's less matchday revenue being generated this season. I've not seen any major announcements for sponsoership or new major kit deals. You're ignoring something there as well regarding the ticket revenue. When we got relegated we made £15.6m from ST sales £11m last season, but some are reporting gate receipts went up, which is true from £5.5m to £6.5m which is true, but the overall money's generated from ticket sales regardless of ST/our pay as you go went down from £21.1m to £17.5m. This season our average has gone up, it will be 5,000 higher than last season ticket prices have went through the roof £43 cheapest v Sunderland/Man Utd etc...while the ST sales only went up 1,000, so we should get back near the £21m gate receipts money we had in 2009, another example of it going up. I think that's all negated by having 10% more people coming through the gates (paying the same for pies pints crisps and pop) in the championship than we have in the PL. Point is, it's debateable, and J69's £50m figure is cloud cuckoo land. EDIT: I love how these threads always end up concentrating on next year btw. It's always about how his cost cutting efforts are a genius business tactic to get money out of the club ASAP. But the facts just don't fit, he's a numpty that's blown so much money on mediocrity it's unreal. Any assumption of profit next season also assumes survival this season btw

Whatever it is, it's a lot less than the Adidas deal we were previously on.

What's that based on though? If we've accounted for TV money and player wages without showing that kind of profit, where do you see it coming from? 23 * 43000 = 989K bums on seats last year. 19*47000 = 893K bums on seats this year So there's less matchday revenue being generated this season. I've not seen any major announcements for sponsoership or new major kit deals.

Our TV money in the PL last time was £38m...so we're £17m better off now according to your £55m figure But like I said above, other turnover was £12m down....and I can't see it rising due to PL status so it's only really £5m better off. Last time we were in the PL we turned a loss of £32.5m though. So assuming the same wages...we'd be running a loss of £27m. These accounts say the wages were £47m, down from £71m.... a £24m saving. That leaves us a £3m loss....before you add Ben Arfa and Tiote's wages (assuming they're more than Carroll's) These are all fag packet numbers, but I think the assumption of a hefty profit this time next year is rash.

a nice tidy balance sheet to cover the blow of relegation ? Toonpack and people like him will be cheering from the Sports Direct rooftops That will be the litmus test. With the promotion money and Carroll sale we should have £50mil+ profit. Will Ashley plough it back into the club or claim it's time to start paying back all of his loans and pocket the lot? Howzat? IIRC you were saying in the Mike Ashley thread we'd show a profit in these accounts too. So overall revenue dropped £33.7m and TV revenue fell £21.6m So other revenue fell £12.1m We've got the TV money back.....not sure we've pulled back the sponsorship, crowds, pies, merchandise etc though. The average attendance was about 4000 less....but we played a lot more games. Remember we were already running at a loss before relegation too. Without the Carroll cash I reckon we'd still have been running a loss for this financial year....they say break even....nowt like a £15m profit on top of the Carroll cash.

Because he's running at a loss. He's not added any value to the club since the day he bought it. He couldn't take a penny of profit if he sold. It's like buying a classic car, driving it into a wall at 40mph, giving it a paintjob and bragging at the owners club meeting about what you've spent on upkeep.

Not in the slightest and I thought my OP made it clear that wasnt the case. What Im saying is that one persons butter is another mans shit. It shouldnt be down to the fans to find their place and definitely not at the expense of other fans. This is my whole reasoning for the thread in the first place, do we seriously think the club didnt realise there'd be this problem when they did the change? Of course they did, theyre stupid but not that stupid. They knew exactly what would happen and if they wanted to have a singing section then they would have kept it where it was or moved it before announcement. They didnt do it then so theres fuck all chance they'll do it now. The whole thing about extending Family enclosure is simply a smoke screen to get rid of you lot. They're bright enough to know that getting rid under the guise of "developing the future fanbase" makes it look valid. And this is where I come back to my original post, it wont be louder because they're not going to sit you there. Maybe the plan will backfire, maybe having a thousand singers spread across the stadium will make those around them join in but then again, 99% of those there will logically be followers, joining in a chant, they wont attempt to start one themselves (I know I never have and never would). I'm not saying anyone should be forced to move from their existing seat or that the club need to organise anything, but that the dynamic of the stadium will always find its level naturally. And ST holders in the lower tiers might be as pissed off by it (like those of us being moved from the corner against our will are) but that's not something anyone can help....other than reversing the decision and leaving things as they are. I totally agree with you that the club are stringing it out and have no way of keeping everyone happy. In my opinion Leazes L4 will now make most of the racket as that's where most matchday ticket buyers will go...even if season ticket holders aren't placed there specifically by the club. If all the noise happens to be coming from the Gallowgate next year, I'll request a seat move to there so I can watch the match in the artmosphere i enjoy. If the club say I can't be seated in L4 in the first place...but then there's empty spaces and matchday tickets being sold there...I'll request to be moved there. Similarly if any fan is unhappy with the increased racket around them or any persistent "stand up if you love the toon" chanting that starts to occur, they should have the common sense to realise the move has affected them adversely like it has thousands of others (the financial effect on a lot of us is much worse than the annoyance of a new set of faces moving in) and request a seat move to a quieter area befitting their matchday disposition.

Think I've been beaten. Just opened this thread for the first time having read no other coverage of his comments and gave up almost immediately. I have no interest whatsoever in anything he has to say....or anyone else at the club. Looking forward to the piss up on Saturday though.

I've sat on my hands in the library seats a few times and been dead keen to get off my arse and sing. I reckon half the people in there are the same.....but you don't do it unless you're in with a majority oif like-minded piss heads. But then there are people in the L7 singing corner who sit on their arse for 90 minutes without a peep. They just sit there because it's cheapest. You have and always have had the areas with atmosphere and areas without. Whether or not it's been sanctioned from within the club. The L4 corner...or L4 leazes in general will be louder than the rest of the stadium, I don't doubt it for a second, and people that want to sing will tend towards there and people that don't will move away....especially now that the price is the same for everyone outside the family enclosure at both ends.

Both were debated and for some reason L4 was chosen. "banter" with away fans. "The Leazes" chants Shitty bars in the Gallowgate More space for it to grow in size (and songs to travel). the Gallowgate is more enclosed.

I'd love it if you were the UN. That's what Dinner Jacket and Obama need.

What else are forums for if not wasting time, energy and life, arguing pointlessly and resolving nothing? It's not as if the gypo thread would be a better use of my time.

The brilliant thing is he is such a poor example for the pro-war anti immigration civil liberty eroders he convinces more people to the lefty view than he does his poorly thought out, ill founded views. the woolly headed ideas of you, Fish etc do wonders for the loonie leftie brigade too, about as much as the muslims themselves when they show anybody with half a brain they don't have the balls to fight like men instead of behaving like the cowardly tosspots that they are. How you and others perceive what I say doesn't really bother me, you should be able to see them for what they are regardless. I've heard that Adele song less than this. Change the record man. I've yet to hear anybody, despite your defence of these lunatics, actually acknowledge what i say is correct. Which it is, of course. Which lunatics? Who defended them? What did you say about them? Please do be specific. All I've heard is vague attacks on "them" for a range of activities lumped in together, from so much as disagreeing with the wars to flying planes into buildings. I'll remind you of my position.... I have woolly headed ideas? I endorse the harshest penalty available for terrorists. I protect muslims who don't have the balls to fight like men instead of behaving like the cowardly tosspots that they are? I don't want to gas people for protesting...there have been millions of British, white christians (and I'm sure thousands of ex pat American Jews and Aussie scientologists) that protested the war on British soil. It's not a feasible law. I do not see them for what they are? I do not assume anyone is anything until there's evidence been presented to me to suggest it. Give me an example of an individual I've misjudged. No point in even responding to him mate. We all know where you stand (well, apart from Leazes). I have faith in Leazes. One day he'll be able to present a view supported with a reason. one day we might all live together in your multicultural utopia. Unlikely though. As you get older, you will realise your schoolteachers spun you a load of shite. You forgot to reply to my other post mate. My schoolteachers? What's algebra got to do with anything. I don't think Islam had any part on the curriculum when i was a nipper. I've replied to all your points over time, some of the offended little dears are objecting to reading the "same sort of comments". Should be interesting the next time you and the others defend these scumbags - again - the next time they are burning banners and wishing death on British soldiers and infidels, ie you. Same old, same old. Could you quote me one of those posts please? If not where you replied to any of my points, at least where I defended these scumbags?

The brilliant thing is he is such a poor example for the pro-war anti immigration civil liberty eroders he convinces more people to the lefty view than he does his poorly thought out, ill founded views. the woolly headed ideas of you, Fish etc do wonders for the loonie leftie brigade too, about as much as the muslims themselves when they show anybody with half a brain they don't have the balls to fight like men instead of behaving like the cowardly tosspots that they are. How you and others perceive what I say doesn't really bother me, you should be able to see them for what they are regardless. I've heard that Adele song less than this. Change the record man. I've yet to hear anybody, despite your defence of these lunatics, actually acknowledge what i say is correct. Which it is, of course. Which lunatics? Who defended them? What did you say about them? Please do be specific. All I've heard is vague attacks on "them" for a range of activities lumped in together, from so much as disagreeing with the wars to flying planes into buildings. I'll remind you of my position.... I have woolly headed ideas? I endorse the harshest penalty available for terrorists. I protect muslims who don't have the balls to fight like men instead of behaving like the cowardly tosspots that they are? I don't want to gas people for protesting...there have been millions of British, white christians (and I'm sure thousands of ex pat American Jews and Aussie scientologists) that protested the war on British soil. It's not a feasible law. I do not see them for what they are? I do not assume anyone is anything until there's evidence been presented to me to suggest it. Give me an example of an individual I've misjudged. No point in even responding to him mate. We all know where you stand (well, apart from Leazes). I have faith in Leazes. One day he'll be able to present a view supported with a reason. one day we might all live together in your multicultural utopia. Unlikely though. As you get older, you will realise your schoolteachers spun you a load of shite. You forgot to reply to my other post mate. My schoolteachers? What's algebra got to do with anything. I don't think Islam had any part on the curriculum when i was a nipper.

Disagree totally, I like to sing, you like to sing but the bloke next to me doesnt. The entire row in front doesnt. People pay their money to watch a match, some pay that money and select a seat thats in the middle of the singing section, others prefer to get behind the team but sit quieter watching and taking in whats happening. There are some who use it as a chance to catch up on some much needed kip, theyre known as the East Stand The point is, people have got used to their seats just as you have. There will be people in there who cant stand throughout a game due to medical problems. Suddenly having 500 lunatic kids in the rows in front of them would block their view. There'll be many in there who dont want to sing, if they did dont you think they would have moved into L7 by now and saved themselves cash? Everyone from L7 moving into L4 with the logic that "if those currently in there dont like it then they can shift" is wrong and thats the line the club will use when they refuse the bulk of the moves. As I said in my OP the only time a club could sanction a move like this would be before they had even mentioned ST renewals (as Mr Stone Cold also pointed out above). What they have guaranteed though is by "talking to the fans" and promising to look into it theyve effectively killed off any widescale protests. A good percentage of those that receive their ST who are elsewhere will swear loudly to themselves and then do nothing more about it. ps the old days were no different, people wanted to jump about and sing they went in the Gallowgate or Leazes, want to support the team quietly? West Stand, want a kip? East Stand. So you're saying the only fans that don't get to enjoy the match as they want to must be those that provide the most vocal support? Bollocks. We've been shifted from pillar to post....from the gallowgate....to the leazes....to the corner and now again. We've learned to make the most of our new position in the ground every time. If some dullard wants to complain that there's nowhere else in the other three quarters of the stadium where they can catch 40 winks they're taking the piss. I'm sure the terms and conditions allow for one seat move per season btw. I know we moved when we weren't happy with our corner seat and we weren't charged.