Happy Face

The violence wasn't as surprising as the complete indifference of the stewards/police. I'm sure they'll be more competent at the Euros.

I've not said otherwise. Not matching the full houses of Shepherd's last year though, or even the 50,700 of his first season, so not turned it around completely yet.

That's my thing. Ask Chez. You're supposed to frame your own argument against the point being made though, not focus in on the side issue of how precise my working has been. Milner and Nzogbia weren't particularly high earners either. Not sure what Given was on, but it could be argued that Ashley did very little to really lower the wage bill until we'd been relegated. In signing Smith, Coloccini, Geremi, and Nolan(?) (and perhaps sanctioning Barton and Viduka who arrived after he bought out Sir John but before the take over was complete) he was guilty of lumbering the club with some of the most expensive contracts in recent history. Everyone on the books for the last 3 years was signed by Ashley. To argue that Ashley's spent 5 years correcting the mistakes of his predecessor on that score is misleading....and a line Llambias often likes to spin. He deserves massive credit on restructuring the policy since since relegation, to suit a second tier club. The question is whether he can restructure it again to make us first tier, which we should be primed to do now.

Are you saying 9/11 is as put up as the bible? Parkyesque.

He messed around with a bloke called Tiote He loved him like Don Quixote

A dossier released by Iraq Body Count, a project of the UK non-governmental non-violent and disarmament organization Oxford Research Group, attributed approximately 6,616 civilian deaths to the actions of US-led forces during the "invasion phase", including the shock-and-awe bombing campaign on Baghdad As of June 2011, 6594 genocide victims have been identified through DNA analysis of body parts recovered from mass grave in Srebrenica.

They're prosecuting him for nipping an arse?

You're changing how the discussion is framed, from 'we've been turned around' to 'we'd be much worse off without him'. I'll take that as agreement that he's not quite turned us round yet. Which was my only point

Should I have provided the exact number of days. Don't avoid the overall point to concentrate on the minutiae of an approximation.

The average attendance that corresponds to our most recent financial results was 47718.

I never said yes. That would be for a court to decide based upon evidence which I've not been privy to.

The Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI, specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as: (i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances; (ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i). According to an independent commission of inquiry set up by the government of the Netherlands, UN resolution 1441 "cannot reasonably be interpreted as authorising individual member states to use military force to compel Iraq to comply with the Security Council's resolutions."

Minnie the Moocher/Mathieu Debuchy Folks, here´s a story about Mathieu Debuchy He is a red hot hoochie-koochy He was the roughest, toughest in Lille but Mathieu had a heart as big as a wha-a-le Hidee-Hidee-Hidee-hi Hodee-hodee-hodee-ho Heedey-hee-dee-hee-dee hee Hidee-hidee-hidee-ho etc.

I'm comparing the latest accounts with EVERY season going back over a decade. If a club has more cup games, it's because they get past clubs like Brighton or (relegated) Blackburn in the early stages. To attribute poor matchday revenues ONLY to that is to completely let them off the hook. Attendances are down 4k - 5k. That impacts matchday revenue and is down to Ashley. The previous owners would have cut loose the catering if it was costing them money, they weren't subsidising pies for fans. The fact Ashley did it is more indicative of how fans aren't happy to give him their money. Up to the week we sold Milner he'd spent £27m,that was a year and a half, Keegan had started the season reasonably too. Drawing at old Trafford and beating Bolton at home. Then we sold Milner, Zoggy and Given to pull in £22m and go on a downward spiral. He spent beyond the clubs means...and then he undercut the confidence that can build by gutting the team despite the manager. the worst of both worlds. I'm asking without someone to shoulder the losses/debt, if NUFC were required to stand on it's own two feet financially, was it better placed to do so in 2007 or now? The banks wouldn't lend us another £40m or whatever to cover the losses then so we were in the shit really bad, but would any financial institution lend us the £150m Ashley has built it up to while alienating most of his customers/sponsors....on the back of the same turnover we had then and losses back to what they were in 2005.

Strange, with a good English name like that.

That's amore is 4 syllables Amalfitano is 5. I like the Brian Boitano song off South Park... What would Amalfiltano do If he was here right now, He'd make a plan And he'd follow through, That's what Amalfiltano'd do. When Amalfiltano was in the olympics, Skating for the gold, He did two sow cows and a triple lutz, While wearing a blind fold. When Amalfiltano was in the alps, Fighting grizzly bears, He used his magical fire breath, And saved the maidens fair. So what would Amalfiltano do If he were here today, I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two, That's what Amalfiltano'd do. I want this V-chip out of me, It has stunted my vo-ca-bu-lar-y. And I just want my mom To stop fighting everyone For Wendy I'll be an activist, too, Cos that's what Amalfiltano would do. And what would Amalfiltano do, He'd call all the kids in town, And tell them to unite for true That's what Amalfiltano would do. When Amalfiltano travelled through time To the year 3010, He fought the evil robot kings and saved the human race again And when Amalfiltano built the pyramids, He beat up Kubela Kong. Cos Amalfiltano doesn't take shit from an-e-y-body So lets all get together, And unite to stop our mom's And we'll save Terrance and Phillip too, Cos that's what Amalfiltano'd do. And we'll save Terrance and Phillip too, Cos that's what Amalfiltano'd dooooo, That's what Amalfiltano'd do.

I don't think you explained it, you gave your view, but in my view playing less games isn't a root cause, it's a symptom of the root cause which is Ashley's poor handling of the club. Matchday revenue is the lowest since 2000, we've not got into Europe several times before since then, we've had poor cup runs too. Attributing the lower income to less games is accounts talk that ignores the failings of the owner to ensure both we have more games, and that people want to come to what games there are. Similarly with commercial income, the reduced income follows club performance, not the other way around. As you would have it, whoever owns the club is helpless in the face of the whims of sponsors. While market forces are at play in a broad sense, I've showed previously that our commercial performance goes against the trend for other similarly sized clubs. In my opinion no, for all of the reasons I've set out here. Our debt is better structured, absolutely, but it is much, much bigger. Anything the club is responsible for maximising is down, only TV money is up. Wages as a percentage of turnover is improved so credit is deserved for that. That's the easiest thing in the world to control though, the slash and burn approach to it is what saw us get relegated, however, the excellent way the squad has been rebuilt on a budget negates that very disappointing initial approach. The saving grace is Ashley is so rich. Can I ask you, if Shepherd was in charge now with the finances exactly as they are, would you be happier than you were in 2007? Agreed.

4 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson#England

Notwithstanding the relegation season... Matchday income lowest since 2000 Commercial income lowest since 2001 Turnover (without media) lowest since 2000 Wages as a percentage of income lowest since 2005

Let's say you're right, (though I fail to see a £10m net spend in his first year - £15m in his first 2 years - before wages, as break even and rectifying the issue) What has Ashly done to turn it around? Considering the fact that commercial and matchday incomes are way down. Any re-balancing of the books is predominantly down to improved media income. There's been some improvement in wages, but not a significant amount. The wage bill has gone from £59m when he bought us to £53m now. Basically the cost of Xisco saved. Woop woop.

Iceland made me think we could actually get out of our group.

Over those 2 seasons Ashley broke our transfer record for a defender, brought in a cripple on £60k a week and spent just shy of £6m on a shambles of a young striker who played about 2 and a half games for us. If you're turning something around I fail to see how it's moot to look at the situation in the decade that leads to the changeover. The 2 years at the end was defined by one particularly stupid decision, investing almost £40m in Owen, when he was as good as finished.

Crowds are down since relegation, seats are cheaper, family enclosure is much bigger, advertising revenue is down across the board in the current economic climate, that's before you get to any ill feeling around Ashley and his many decisions that lead people to stop spending in the club shop and bar.

I'd question whether we made "substantial losses every year". In 5 out of ten years prior to Ashleys arrival, losses were lower than they were in the most recent set of accounts, the accounts being lauded as a great vindicator. Only once in that time did losses exceed those in ANY previous year under Ashley. He's turned around his own failings, still a way to go by most other measures.