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Made Garth Crooks' team of the week Give the lad his due, he never hides and he tried hard but he looked well dodgy to me.... Never gonna be Aaron Hughes Dyer and Given also got in but that was to be expected maybe... Just looked at it again and Craig Moore is in there too....

Leazes alter-ago is fantastic over there. Martins will be a great player, he always said Dyer was the answer etc etc after yesterdays performance.... Wonder how long before he reminds us that he always said Shepherd was never the man to be in charge of NUFC....

Just read a thread about him on the kids forum. Personally think he is utter bollocks. They seem impressed with his occasional stepover then booting the ball into the stands. Thoughts on the lad?

Not a very good thread. Not even amusing. Leazes, You seem shit scared of what might happen and it is making you oblivious to what actually is happening. Everyone but you can see that. There are worse and there are those who were loathed despite arguably having achieved as much of not more e.g. Doug Ellis (he has cups after his name). Freddie has done some decent stuff but he hs also fucked up too often and there are very few signs of him turning this corner. If the Chairman of a business isnt in charge despite publically proclaiming that he is then all the more reason for the club to change hands. I, for one, am more than willing to take that risk. Of course we could end up with similar to Lerner or Abramovitch. Maybe we will end up with someone like Romanov. Who knows? what I do know is that you seem shit scared of that change. I'm not. History and what happened prior to 1992 have fuck all to do with the current situation as the business model and the market are entirely different. Its time to move on. The club has lumbered from one disaster to another. Even when we were doing well the clubs name was dragged through the mud by players thinking they were bigger than it. We need people with some wit. Unfortunately neither the chairman nor the manager - the two mot important people at the club - appear to possess much. Understand your misgivings but I simply cant see what there is to be happy about in recent times. Tired of false dawns and broken promises.

Is this in one of the selective 'he's not senile' moments?Chairman of the club appoints managers. As we know, the chairman of club has also sold players without manager knowing (assuming you believe the same source that you use here). Shepherd has done some decent stuff but you would have to be round the bend to back him given his recent record. Or content with mediocrity at best.

Aye, do you now mean he was right to sack Robson and not stick to the plan ? Have I ever said any different? The timing was shocking, but the decision was right. By the way, I wasn't happy with either the Duff or Martins signings especially. I questioned the fact that we'd signed a left winger who we didn't need instead of strikers/defenders/right winger who we did. the timing is irrelevant. I've said this before. Were Arsenal wrong to sack Rioch and replace him with Wenger early in the season ? Were we wrong to sack gullit and replace him with Robson early in the season ? Clubs have always done this, and always will. You don't stick with managers who are losing games, but people like you think they should stick with their plan ... should Arsenal have stuck with Rioch ? Should we have stuck with Gullit ? What a load of bollocks. Just because other people say this tripe doesn't mean its right. Get a mind of your own and realise the only thing that matters is who the new bloke is. Note - we do not need defenders before forwards, we didn't in the summer, and we still don't. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a player like Duff, for 5m quid, and the best years of his career ahead of him, when he was available. This is what makes me smile about "damned if they do, damned if they don't" people like you, because you would have done your nut and called the board everthing if he had gone somewhere else for that price instead of here, and whats more you know it. You are seriously supporting Shepherd's (and Hall's) decision to sack Robson 4 games into the season with ABSOLUTELY NO PLAN ON HIS REPLACEMENT whatsoever? This, after publically undermining him by stating he was in his last year no matter what (and the interference with his transfers which you choose to deny). Can you tell me why on Earth we couldn't PLAN ahead just a little bit and have got his replacement in during the summer, like Liverpool did? I know you don't believe in planning, but how can other clubs make decisions with foresight (again, something you claim does not exist), unlike us, who have made the same mistake THREE times in succession (the mistake being letting a manger spend during the summer only to sack him very early on in the following season), which has led to our present sad and sorry placing. And if as you claim there really is no such thing as foresight, how was it possible to predict Souness would be a disaster? No hindsight required there, was there? Basically I don't think you are capable of ever seeing the damage Shepherd and Hall have done to this club in the last 10 years. I get the feeling that even if we are relegated, which I still think looks like more than a possibility, you will be unable to blame him, instead clinging to some bizarre belief that it was all inevitable. I agree we needed forwards more than defenders btw, it's just a pity Shepherd appointed a manager who is clueless in the transfer market and consequently bought extremely poorly imo. As always though, the buck stops at the top - two apalling managerial appointments have completely undone any good work Shepherd had done previously, and Shepherd is on the brink of leaving the club in its worst state in its entire history. His latest mistake, his decision to stick with Roeder, could well be the straw to finally break the camel's back. Btw, if we were right to sack Robson after 4 games in 2004, can you explain to me why it's alright to give obviously inferior managers much longer and more funds despite much worse starts to the season. Can you explain that one to me Leazes? There is no explanation for this. Robson started the season badly, and so they decided they needed to change. Clubs do it all the time. The fact that some of us think it could have been done in the summer, is neither here nor there....the majority of supporters didn't say this at the time, many on here too, they were happy with the summer signings ie Kluivert, Butt, Milner and Carr, so why would they advocate the sacking of the manager at that stage ? The people who know this is what they thought, but now say they advocated something else, are basically liars. I was happy to go with Robson at the time, but I had reservations about how long he had left. When we started the season badly, I went with the view that a change could work out well as the entire season stood in front of us. As we know, they gave the job to the Scottish fuckpig, and backed him. Why ? Fuck knows, Gemmill and Craig could tell us as they stuck with him even after he assaulted his player on the training ground. The disastrous decision. Don't ask me why they stuck with him, I haven't a clue, I wanted him out from day 1 just like you did. Regarding foresight....you can make a judgement, and you may be wrong. But you can't have foresight, it is not the same thing, and .... nobody is employed to show foresight....fucking hilarious statement that like Tell that to your average economist or stockbroker. They are certainly paid to show foresight. Nb: definition includes:"providence by virtue of planning prudently for the future" Explain why Freddie or an economist or a stockbroker shouldnt be doing just that.

He's completely wrong actually. Not completely. We rarely have decent defenders. In 30 years I can just about manage to put a half way decent back four together and 2 of them were home grown (the fullbacks). Cant think of 8 defenders that I would tell people were top class though. The side in 1995-96 would finish outside the top 4 in my view too. It was good but it was flawed. Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea all have stronger sides than ours back then and we would be exposed on the flanks and in central defence - the league is a lot stronger now than it was then in the pre-Bosman era (which extended itself to include the availability of as many players from EU countries as teams wanted as an aside). The issue of whether we want entertaining is a different matter. That bit is bollocks. We have settled for complete tedium at SJP often enough to say that watching 11 mogadon men and winning summat wouldnt be a problem.

[Our Tune] At first I thought he was ok, a nice intelligent young lad, I respected him. Then came , obviously and rightly so I took the piss out of him for it but sadly he didn't take it in the spirit intended and since then we have been sworn enemies. My recent attempt at a ceasefire was dismissed out of hand and to this day we contine our strong dislike of one another. [/Our Tune] tbh Is that Patrokles? Shit ball control

Yep thats the one for me. He knobbed one in a few weeks earlier that was pretty important. Dont see many goals knobbed in by the likes of Bergkamp or Henry do you??? Best goal I saw was Gazzas against Chelsea. I was sat in the makeshift seats in the Leazes for some reason that day.

Good old democracy

Pretty much what i was thinking

Me either

Heavens above. Fancy having ambition If only there was an attendance of greater than 1 person prior to 1992 we might not be in this predicament. Apparently I, nor the others were there

daft comment, not true and only said by bairns I'm afraid You might think it's daft Leazes, but factually it's correct. People are laughing at the piss poor way this club is being run. It's even gone so far that I hear people say they feel sorry for the Newcastle fans, not because of the years without silverware, but for the pathetic displays both on and off the pitch which the input that our fans give is deserving of so much more. We're an absolute joke at the moment and no wave of a magic wand by the fat fairy is going to turn it all around. Until the upper levels of management are re-planted, we're never going to get of this slippery slope. At the present moment, the Championship beckons, even more so than it did under Souness IMO. well I am not living in Newcastle just now either, and I haven't heard anyone making a joke of the club. There are plenty of people taking the piss out of Leeds, the mackems, West Ham, Liverpool, Manure whenever they lose, Man City [and Stuart Pearce who you thought was improving them] to name a few....and other clubs such as Sheff Wed when people even remember they exist.....speaking of which I remember when we were a joke just like them which is when we were in a state like that ourselves for quite a long time. Especially when we sold our trophy players ie England players and replaced them with tripe and has beens and ordinary players. Pre - 1992 of course, until this board stepped in and showed new ambitions for the club. Either way, I suggest you stop being so sensitive. It sounds like they just know they are winding you up, I can't imagine how you would take it if we were shit. Never mind, next week you can remind them how envious they will be when we are playing in europe - again, and they presumably are not. And - our current situation is exactly what myself and one or two others told you and some others on here would be the legacy of Souness, but you carried on saying we should back him with unlimited funds regardless. So - having forgotten you did all of that, I think you should cast your mind back....and having backed it, why are you moaning. Wasnt it the chairman rather than the people on this board who backed Souness financially? Lets face it I cant imagine anyone on here being daft enough to hoy £50m at someone like him. The other fella should have known better though. Why should he ? He's got his views like anyone. If people think he should have backed Souness and think he is thick, then they must be just as thick for agreeing with him . You understand my point perfectly. They backed Souness spending spree, so they have zero grounds for moaning now. This is the position which some people forecast we would be in, to the letter, and it was obvious Why should he have known better? Cos every man and his dog knew Souness was never going to succeed. Even those who backed him were well aware of his limitations. The one man who shouldnt have given him that opportunity in the first place never mind back him with that kind of cash is the Chairman. Its his job. Its not the responsibility of lads on a message board. Whether they are thick or not isnt of any concern. The buck stopped with one man and as you were aware of the potential legacy of Souness, how come the chairman wasnt? Not content with that fuck up he appoints another plank afterwards. Can he justify either appointment in your view? Can he justify providing these men with funds when we all know that they arent the answer long term or short term? Every man and their dogs didn't, or they would not have backed him selling our best players and spending a fortune on crap replacements and other players too. You are still completely unable to understand that while we all want to be number 1, regularly playing in europe, and buying England players is a degree of success and not failure. You don;t do this by doing everything wrong no matter your resources and if you still don't understand that look around at other big clubs and our own history when we had shit directors. Please explain what grounds you have for thinking replacing the current board with small time directors with zero ambition that don't attempt to tap their resources like other clubs is impossible ? I was aware of how shit Souness was, so maybe they should make me chairman, or manager... I wouldn't make Craig, or Gemmill though, because as well as backing Souness they also thought we would be better off without Bellamy ....enough said. I have never defended Shepherd for appointing Souness, I don't know what your old username was but if you were here on this board at the time you will know I was one of the ones who opposed him the most. And BTW - at the time, appointing Dalglish, Gullit and Robson were top rated appointments, with completely justifiable reasons for appointing them. How many shit clubs with shit boards attract managers like that. So you think Shepherd is guilty of mismanagement? I mean by giving Souness £50m quid? Heavens I think youre tying yourself in knots here mister Nb: Gullit never has been and never will be a top rated manager. The same was\is true of Souness and Roeder. Thus 3 of the 5 Mr Shepherd has appointed have been substandard prior to their appointment. Not good enough. Well not for me anyway. Like I say though, if youre happy with the way the last few seasons have been managed then that in itself tells me more than I need to know. Comparing them to 1978-1982 is just daft so please don't. Its a silly comparison.

daft comment, not true and only said by bairns I'm afraid You might think it's daft Leazes, but factually it's correct. People are laughing at the piss poor way this club is being run. It's even gone so far that I hear people say they feel sorry for the Newcastle fans, not because of the years without silverware, but for the pathetic displays both on and off the pitch which the input that our fans give is deserving of so much more. We're an absolute joke at the moment and no wave of a magic wand by the fat fairy is going to turn it all around. Until the upper levels of management are re-planted, we're never going to get of this slippery slope. At the present moment, the Championship beckons, even more so than it did under Souness IMO. well I am not living in Newcastle just now either, and I haven't heard anyone making a joke of the club. There are plenty of people taking the piss out of Leeds, the mackems, West Ham, Liverpool, Manure whenever they lose, Man City [and Stuart Pearce who you thought was improving them] to name a few....and other clubs such as Sheff Wed when people even remember they exist.....speaking of which I remember when we were a joke just like them which is when we were in a state like that ourselves for quite a long time. Especially when we sold our trophy players ie England players and replaced them with tripe and has beens and ordinary players. Pre - 1992 of course, until this board stepped in and showed new ambitions for the club. Either way, I suggest you stop being so sensitive. It sounds like they just know they are winding you up, I can't imagine how you would take it if we were shit. Never mind, next week you can remind them how envious they will be when we are playing in europe - again, and they presumably are not. And - our current situation is exactly what myself and one or two others told you and some others on here would be the legacy of Souness, but you carried on saying we should back him with unlimited funds regardless. So - having forgotten you did all of that, I think you should cast your mind back....and having backed it, why are you moaning. Wasnt it the chairman rather than the people on this board who backed Souness financially? Lets face it I cant imagine anyone on here being daft enough to hoy £50m at someone like him. The other fella should have known better though. Why should he ? He's got his views like anyone. If people think he should have backed Souness and think he is thick, then they must be just as thick for agreeing with him . You understand my point perfectly. They backed Souness spending spree, so they have zero grounds for moaning now. This is the position which some people forecast we would be in, to the letter, and it was obvious Why should he have known better? Cos every man and his dog knew Souness was never going to succeed. Even those who backed him were well aware of his limitations. The one man who shouldnt have given him that opportunity in the first place never mind back him with that kind of cash is the Chairman. Its his job. Its not the responsibility of lads on a message board. Whether they are thick or not isnt of any concern. The buck stopped with one man and as you were aware of the potential legacy of Souness, how come the chairman wasnt? Not content with that fuck up he appoints another plank afterwards. Can he justify either appointment in your view? Can he justify providing these men with funds when we all know that they arent the answer long term or short term?

daft comment, not true and only said by bairns I'm afraid You might think it's daft Leazes, but factually it's correct. People are laughing at the piss poor way this club is being run. It's even gone so far that I hear people say they feel sorry for the Newcastle fans, not because of the years without silverware, but for the pathetic displays both on and off the pitch which the input that our fans give is deserving of so much more. We're an absolute joke at the moment and no wave of a magic wand by the fat fairy is going to turn it all around. Until the upper levels of management are re-planted, we're never going to get of this slippery slope. At the present moment, the Championship beckons, even more so than it did under Souness IMO. well I am not living in Newcastle just now either, and I haven't heard anyone making a joke of the club. There are plenty of people taking the piss out of Leeds, the mackems, West Ham, Liverpool, Manure whenever they lose, Man City [and Stuart Pearce who you thought was improving them] to name a few....and other clubs such as Sheff Wed when people even remember they exist.....speaking of which I remember when we were a joke just like them which is when we were in a state like that ourselves for quite a long time. Especially when we sold our trophy players ie England players and replaced them with tripe and has beens and ordinary players. Pre - 1992 of course, until this board stepped in and showed new ambitions for the club. Either way, I suggest you stop being so sensitive. It sounds like they just know they are winding you up, I can't imagine how you would take it if we were shit. Never mind, next week you can remind them how envious they will be when we are playing in europe - again, and they presumably are not. And - our current situation is exactly what myself and one or two others told you and some others on here would be the legacy of Souness, but you carried on saying we should back him with unlimited funds regardless. So - having forgotten you did all of that, I think you should cast your mind back....and having backed it, why are you moaning. Wasnt it the chairman rather than the people on this board who backed Souness financially? Lets face it I cant imagine anyone on here being daft enough to hoy £50m at someone like him. The other fella should have known better though.

NO, just I doubt Shearer would be mates with an alchy psycho like some people are making out. I don't trust people from Hartlepool anyway, period. Did you used to have a pet monkey that went missing or something? Of all he managers available I would honestly prefer Sven to any of them. He has faults but he tends to play his best players (although he obviously had his favourrites), keeps a settled side for important games, doesnt fuck about too much and has experience of England. The last bit is important cos we need someone with some talent and experience. The others havent had that at clubs of our size and he has. Cant see him working in this country again after his experience with the media here though. Freddie will appoint Peter Reid before him though.

Great in Scum. Still one of my favourite films.

Half of the west end would need to remortgage their house twice over to raise that kind of wonga

For fuck's sake, when are they going to open their fucking eyes and realise that what is being written IS the popular belief of the fans. Surely they've got people trawling the forums on the web to gauge supporter opinion or are they seriously displaying blind belief? Never really thought forums did anything but gauge the opinion of specific groups of fans. As a sample I dont think they reflect general opinion particularly well tbh. Some seems like the mongs you get on 606. Others are those that enjoy each others company cos they agree with each other. Nice comfy communities and thats why they go there. There are exceptions of course. Having said that I agree with the sentiment Craig that a good many people want FS out. He is a thick skinned fucker though as can be seen after the 'dogs' comment. Fans wont get shot of him. The right money will though. Why sell a cash cow?

We are a much better team with him in it. Hes one of the few who can create space for others, take a man on and carry a ball. He also allows us to break, push teams back when we are being pressed. He has his faults but he provides an awful lot that isnt obvious. Of course if hes spilled your pint then hes nowt but a diseased little prick.....

Its not a question of who is better. Its simply a question of how satisfied people are and there is enough of a groundswell to suggest Fred hasnt done his job very well recently. His record in the past has some successes but to be honest he appointed Bobby who is enough of a manager to do a job wherever he goes irrespective of circumstances. His record proves that. You have to question whether he did it because of Fred or in spite of him. Other than a couple of seasonswith Bobby we have had nowt but letdowns. You can dismiss cups and point to this daft argument about 5th best, 8th best but if people are satisfied with our current predicament or the past few seasons for that matter then they have very little ambition. Of course there is the 'better the devil you know' argument but thats a futile argument that shouldnt hold us back if we really do want to progress. If anyone can find any crumbs of comfort in the present situation that say we should be satisfied and that good times are around the corner then I will listen. Personally I cant. If Fred has put plans in action to resolve the falling gates, employs respected and talented people to ensure our league position, provides a well researched scouting operation rather than throwing money at situations and in doing so gives us some hope in a squad that is probably our weakest since 1992 then I will happily get behind him. I cant see any of that unfortunately. I see some decent revenue streams, solid wood doors - not your cheap stuff (as Bobby put it) and a complete lack of understanding in planning long term to deliver the right team manager. Its the most imprtant position at the club and we have had to react and appoint substandard folk all too often recently - e.g Souness, Roeder, Gullit. Gullit was untested over any period of time and such more of a risk - one a big club like us shouldnt be taking. Bobby was thankfully available. The anomoly was Dalglish - other than that the man has either fucked up or got lucky. He hasnt been all bad but his time is up. But whilst some people will point to worse chairmen, it is also obvious that there are significantly better. People with the level of revenue this club can generate know that it can be run more successfully if it successful on the pitch. that is the bottom line. On that score alone fred has failed and is failing. If we see any more of this tripe then he has to walk. It is beyond even the most doey eyed dreamer to suggest that he has succeeded in financial management or appointment of key personnel in the recent past. How much longer do we put up with it? Nb: I have been there a couple of decades before 1992, whatever that proves.

It's his face, man, I can't help myself! And I'm a bit prone to that sort of thing anyway... His face is bad but his hunchy posture and bizzare crab like walk get me He really does look like a crab when he moves around the pitch. ramage would have struggled in ossie ardiles' squad never mind what we aspire to nowadays.

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true. When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time. Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country. For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him. BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question. You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment. A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless. BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years. I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one] Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between. I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him. Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons. Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be. Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team. Well I thought he had good potential at Coventry, when he played through the middle near to Hartson it was obvious it was his best position rather than out wide where Strachan played him [good manager and better than Roeder because he's won the Scottish League ] and I was very pleased when we bought him, although I realise I have no proof of that, having said it on talk of the tyne and the old nufc.nu forum at the time. Of course the partnership with Shearer was 2 way. But Bellamy and Robert DID catapult Newcastle from being a mid table team with no pace or creativity into a top 4 side. Most players only care about themselves, people generally do. Bellamy however played over 50 games for Newcastle with a knee needing surgery, you won't find many players doing that. Martins may just need a chance, but I - along with isegrim - share the concern over his wild finishing and slashing at chances. You either have it or you don't. Micky Quinn was a player who wasn't really good outside the box but inside he was deadly, accurate and came alive. You watch him...he only needed a split second and 99 times out of 100 he hit the target, no matter where or how the ball came to him, the keeper had to stop the ball or it would have been in. Thats an example of a limited player, but one who had the goalscoring knack. If Martins is going to be an out and out goalscorer, and not contribute much to team play, he needs to be accurate and take his opportunities to justify it. I obviously hope he does, as he has pace he would be hard to contain. The purchase of Robert and Bellamy were right for the positions that needed filling at the time. They helped the rest of a very good midfield and attack push us to where we got. We also had a very effective Gary Speed and highly effective Dyer Solano conbination in Dec/Jan/Feb and more the second season. On top of that we had a bloke who could finish like no other Newcastle player (or any other club) recently had. They didnt catapult us, they were the last pieces of a jigsaw that was very effective. Splitting hairs I know but it always suggests to me that they did more than the rest and they didnt. It was highly effective team play. At present we are nowhere near buying for appropriate positions, have a bloke injured who could replace Alan Shearer but we will see, Martins is nowt but a youngun who needs time. He COULD be very good but we wont know til we sort out the rest of the shambles. Even our back four in that first season of Hughes, Distin, Dabizas and O'Brien were light years ahead of our current set up. Its hard to see one player from the current side who would oust one player from that side on current form. Duff has the ability to but hasnt managed to as our system just isnt working for him either. Emre is a good player but limited when we need some physical presence. Parker is good but not as good as many rate him - certainly Gary Speed was better and offered more going forward. I would personally prefer to see him as a box to box player with somone commanding alongside him in the mould of Sissoko or Papa Diop. Martins needs someone up front with him as I mentioned. The back four need binning altogether. Not one of them from Ramage, Taylor, Carr, Babayaro or Bramble is good enough for the shirt. Its hard work at present but its been coming for a long long time. Mismanagement of players, wasting money on clueless managers aswell as players acting/playing like arseholes have all been evident since 2003-4. something has to change. Whether it is policy or personnel is open to debate but watching that shower of shite in a stadium well short of capacity should send alarm bells ringing.

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true. When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time. Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country. For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him. BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question. You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment. A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless. BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years. I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one] Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between. I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him. Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons. Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be. Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.