Pacinofan

And we were then. Seriously, who other than Man U, City, Chelsea aren't these days (and maybe Arsenal, although there are signs they're heading to also-ran-ville as they are losing their best players to their "rivals", in the "approaching last year of contract" scenario, sounds awfully familiar). As for then 25,000 can you quantify/back that up ??? In another thread, I can't recall exactly which one, I believe our realistic "benchmark" appeared widely accepted as being Spurs (notwithstanding their bright-lights London advantage). Given our operating model (that can never work long term, so I keep reading) has been their operating model for years and years, what over and above competing with Spurs is our "realistic" ambition in your opinion? I understand we used to have a waiting list with 15,000 people on it so basically I would say there are more than 20,000 fans who have lost interest in going to games. Also despite the good start to the season we had loads of empty seats at the villa game - ive not known that for many many years, it was very sad to see and its another indication the club is decline. As for spurs, much as dislike them, I would say they have demonstrated far more ambition than us in recent years - they fight to keep hold of their best players for a start Guess how much the capacity went up by... I think this was after the capacity had increased to 52,000 That figure was always quoted when we were at 36,000 tbh. I'm sure someone will have the right answer with regard to that, but even if I'm wrong our home crowds are showing a year by year reduction and there were hundreds of empty seats in our end at Villa the other week which really surprised me. I can't remember the last time we didnt sell our allocation at Villa! How do you explain that if you don't think the club is in decline under Ashley? I think he's alienated a lot of people and I wouldn't be so daft to dispute the fact of falling attendances. At the same time I know 'fulfilling our potential' (meaning the natural potential of NUFC given it's fanbase), doesn't get you within competing distance of Chelsea Man U Man C etc these days because they're having money chucked at them due to either their a) bigger natural resources or private funding. 'Chuck more money at us please' is a perfectly valid thing to say, but people should have the honesty to acknowledge that that's just a statement of desire and not try to link it to NUFC's natural potential, because the facts there suggest we fall way behind the aforementioned clubs resources even with a full 52,000 stadium. Say you want more money spent by all means, but don't say it's warranted because we're NUFC and our natural potential because their's an inherent contradiction in that. City are having a whale of a time, but you won't find one fan trying to pass it off as being sustainable on the back of their natural potential. They know they're a rich mans play thing but theyre honest about it. Their stadium is only 4,000 less than ours and they've spent close to £300 million on transfers alone. Before 2003 we were by and large the second largest club in terms of turn over though. That's a fact, all clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have done is maximise their branding, while ours has detoriated to dunlop dodgem levels. Why was our turnover bigger than theirs then, and why can't it be again? I think with Arsenal who are the 4th biggest club in the world on a few levels we won't compete because we cant charge £1000 for the cheapest season tickets in the NE, but Man City, our natural size is MUCH bigger than theirs. Us and Tottenham should be about the same. You're at it again ffs. Only twice have you had a higher turnover than Liverpool in the last 16 years. Don't know about the other clubs you mention, but wouldn't surprise me if you were wrong about them either. Liverpool Year Turnover 2007/08 159.052 2006/07 133.910 - 2005/06 119.499 2004/05 121.054 2003/04 92.576 - 2002/03 102.504 2001/02 98.668 2000/01 82.155 1999/00 46.609 1998/99 45.265 1997/98 36.366 1996/97 39.153 1995/96 27.396 - Newcastle Year Turnover Pre-tax profit Wages / Turnover ratio (%) Employees 2007/08 99.358 - 2006/07 87.083 - 2005/06** 83.086 - 2004/05 87.087 2003/04 90.468 2002/03 96.449 2001/02 70.858 2000/01 54.916 1999/00 45.090 - 1998/99 44.718 1997/98 49.177 1996/97 42.162 1995/96 24.723

Lennon and McCartney wrote one of the Stones first hits, very commercial, but a good vehicle to raise their profile. The Stones made some great music and I agree they should have broke up in the early 70's. Brian Jones was the leader and most talented Stone, but it was Richards and Jagger who wrote the songs (some of them very good ), and Jones's increasing experimentation with drink and drugs saw him gradually pushed out of the group he started, and named, until he was finally sacked. In a business of giant egos and rewriting of histories, Jagger is one of the biggest phonies in music, imo. Lennon was always searching for something to hold his interest, he was easily bored, Ono was 7 years older than him, and offered a world that he'd long been attrracted to. Musically there is no comparison between The Stones and The Beatles. The Beatles albums and single B sides show as diverse a range of lyrics and tunes that you'll find anywhere. You think you have a favourite Beatle song and then you hear another that you'd forgotten about that also blows you away. 'Being for the benefit of Mr Kite' and 'I'm only sleeping' are not two of the most popular Beatle songs but I like them because the music totally fits the picture they're portraying. Lennon was introduced to acid by Georges dentist in 1965.

How so PL? I thought he became stifled by her to an extent, although pre Ono his life seemed a bit aimless.

Cabaye looks like a great buy for you and your team are looking good. Pardew appears to be doing a good job,yes?

Tbf, Liverpool were buying him as back up, hence why they didn't make the contract offer more attractive. Downing was always the top target for the left side. Looks like a decent player, if a bit injury prone.

That was the reason he gave, but most blues at the time were disgusted because he deserted them. It was a marriage after all. That was the reason he gave, because that was the reason. It turned out to be a bad decision for him and us sadly. I don't know where you were at the time Andy, or how old you are, but the letters to The Echo and local phone ins told a different story. The general feeling among Evertonians, at that time, was that he'd sold Lineker to Barca because he thought he was getting the Barca job after El Tel. Europe may or may not have played a part in his leaving but, at the time, it wasn't seen that way.

but of course this person doesn't exist, and is just a name I could choose Fucking what an embarrassment. White Lightening on cheap in West Derby is it? Goodnight deluded one. Did you read the word Maybe? You know, like a suggestion?

Meltdown Meltdown pmsl yeah I'm the one accusing you of being a mackem who thinks I'm a cunt on another board fpmsl In all fairness you couldn't make it up. Could you link the boards blueboy and sandpiper post on, I'm sure they'll find your mental state equally as mortifying as I do. Jeez, you're as thick as two short planks. I was giving you names you could open new accounts in on this fuckin board duh! Why lie? You've proven your intellectual level this evening by failing to grasp the £40m comment was for one season. If I was a Liverpool fan, and thank fuck I'm not, I'd be embarrassed by you. You epitomise why Alex said all scousers are cunts on another thread yesterday. He asked the question what is the Liverpool Way, you can't answer it, because you know the official line will be too cringeworthy for this boards server to take. Oh you deluded thicko, you said that Newcastle have had a higher turnover than Everton for 15 years, I was interested in seeing your source for reasons other than your claim. Got it? If you were a Liverpool fan, and thank fuck you're not, I'd die of pure shame. Alex is entitled to his opinion, his hate isn't ugly like yours though. I've cringed at many things to do with certain fans of the club I love, but the Liverpool Way is not one of them. I might add, I've cringed at many more things from other clubs fans.

Meltdown Meltdown pmsl yeah I'm the one accusing you of being a mackem who thinks I'm a cunt on another board fpmsl In all fairness you couldn't make it up. Could you link the boards blueboy and sandpiper post on, I'm sure they'll find your mental state equally as mortifying as I do. Jeez, you're as thick as two short planks. I was giving you names you could open new accounts in on this fuckin board duh!

You Your Evertonian is wrong, how come you always come out with these silly made up stories just to back up your own wishful thinking? The uni did a postcode survey about 8 or 9 years ago now, and it worked out that Liverpool had a higher local fanbase than Everton, not by much, but enough. There are also weak links to establishing local fanbase, like I have all my life met more reds in the city than blues. Scouse adults don't tend to wear replica shirts other than going to the match, but the kids do, and it's always been more red than blue. Also, I've been to many a function where the band playing are from outside the area, and for some reason they think they should end the night with YNWA, a local band just wouldn't do it. The amount of clapping and singing would tell you quite easily how many reds there are to blues, it's always massive. Istanbul tended to bring in more oots and oocs. Out of curiosity could you provide a source for your last 15 years and having 40 million more than Everton over that period? Not that I disbelieve you, I'm just interested. I'll get him to post his thoughts on here if you like. I don't what I would have to gain in saying that.- What, open another account? Maybe you could be blueboy or sandpiper. His your thoughts are shite, and you/he have no idea of what you're talking about. Gain? When talking about Liverpool FC you always have your own jealousy driven agenda, I find it amusing. I haven't worn a replica top since I was about 16, but every time I've been to Anfield which is a lot, you see lots of replica shirts being worn by all ages. - What has whether YOU wear a replica shirt got to do with anything? I said, other than at the match, Scouse adults don't wear replica shirts much. Anyway I was wrong our turnover must've been more than £40m more than Everton's at one point, pretty shite source this granted but it's also a true one, and if you look you'll find an official link somewhere anyway. In fact I can't even remember Everton ever being in the richlist. We were even in it in our relegation season, all I was doing was highlighting the commercial and financial difference in size between Newcastle United and Everton. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127167 1 (1) Manchester United 175.8 (251.4) 2 (2) Juventus 152.7 (218.3) 3 (4) AC Milan 140 (200.2) 4 (6) Real Madrid 134.7 (192.6) 5 (3) Bayern Munich 113.8 (162.7) 6 (12) Inter Milan 113.6 (162.4) 7 (8) Arsenal 104.6 (149.6) 8 (5) Liverpool 104.4 (149.4) 9 (13) Newcastle 97.1 (138.9) 10 (7) Chelsea 93.6 (133.8) 11 (10) Roma 92.6 (132.4) 12 (15) Borussia Dortmund 86.7 (124.0) 13 (9) Barcelona 86.3 (123.4) 14 (n/a) Schalke 04 82.9 (118.6) 15 (16) Tottenham 66.9 (95.6) 16 (11) Leeds 64.3 (92.0) 17 (14) Lazio 62.2 (88.9) 18 (17) Celtic 60.8 (87.0) 19 (20) Olympique Lyonnais 58.9 (84.3) 20 (n/a) Valencia 56.3 (80.5). I was hoping for the 15 years you talked about. Where did I mention 15 years you disgraceful wallpushing bastard? I said we've been wealthier than them in one season for over £40m can you not read, generally it was always 20-30m but I made the point that that particular season our income would've been £10m more than normal cos of the CL. fucking hilarious. You think I'd pose as a blue dipper to annoy you PMSL mate if you died tomorrow I wouldn't notice or care, even if someone came on this board and said "see that cunt Pacino he's died" I'd think "poor cunt", and that would be it. You deluded nobhead. If they annoy you, they must talk sense whoever they are. Someone sounds upset, truth hurt? You said 'Newcastle have over the last 15 years had a turnover over £40m more than Everton' I was actually more interested in your 15 year source, not the 'facts' you come out with, I take no notice of them anyway, they too often turn out to be wrong. I don't think, I believe, that you would pose as anyone, and have a conversation with yourself, to back up your points. I'm not your mate and if I died tomorrow why would I think you'd know about it? Sounds like you take the net far too seriously, you need a life sonny boy. Me deluded, the fucking irony. Amusement isn't annoyance. The last paragraph seems to be a drunken effort at an insult, a frenchman teaching english wouldn't know what the fuck you're on about or what to say to his pupils, and neither do I. Drink could be your main problem I think. Can you answer a question though, do you believe there's a thing called "the Liverpool way", and if you do can you describe what it is, and what's so different about it from other clubs. Why am I not surprised you choose to say you don't understand it, nor give a source for your 15 year quote? You understand it totally but it's too near the truth for you accept. Yes, there is 'The Liverpool way' but why would I want to explain it to someone who wouldn't understand it in a million years? Shut up you emotional scouse mug, you're a clear and present manic depressive alcoholic. You've proved it tonight beyond any doubt. I've been perfectly reasonable with you, spoke with you with a degree of respect, well more than you deserve and you act like a cunt. If you re-read the 15 year thing you will I didn't say we were £40m above them for 15 years. People like you caused the deaths of 39 innocent Italians perhaps it's on your conscience, maybe that's the way you are how you are? Actually 38 Italians and 1 Belgian. Clearly you're having a breakdown when you think I could be some Evertonian on another board who obviously thinks you're as big a mug as I do. Meltdown

You Your Evertonian is wrong, how come you always come out with these silly made up stories just to back up your own wishful thinking? The uni did a postcode survey about 8 or 9 years ago now, and it worked out that Liverpool had a higher local fanbase than Everton, not by much, but enough. There are also weak links to establishing local fanbase, like I have all my life met more reds in the city than blues. Scouse adults don't tend to wear replica shirts other than going to the match, but the kids do, and it's always been more red than blue. Also, I've been to many a function where the band playing are from outside the area, and for some reason they think they should end the night with YNWA, a local band just wouldn't do it. The amount of clapping and singing would tell you quite easily how many reds there are to blues, it's always massive. Istanbul tended to bring in more oots and oocs. Out of curiosity could you provide a source for your last 15 years and having 40 million more than Everton over that period? Not that I disbelieve you, I'm just interested. I'll get him to post his thoughts on here if you like. I don't what I would have to gain in saying that.- What, open another account? Maybe you could be blueboy or sandpiper. His your thoughts are shite, and you/he have no idea of what you're talking about. Gain? When talking about Liverpool FC you always have your own jealousy driven agenda, I find it amusing. I haven't worn a replica top since I was about 16, but every time I've been to Anfield which is a lot, you see lots of replica shirts being worn by all ages. - What has whether YOU wear a replica shirt got to do with anything? I said, other than at the match, Scouse adults don't wear replica shirts much. Anyway I was wrong our turnover must've been more than £40m more than Everton's at one point, pretty shite source this granted but it's also a true one, and if you look you'll find an official link somewhere anyway. In fact I can't even remember Everton ever being in the richlist. We were even in it in our relegation season, all I was doing was highlighting the commercial and financial difference in size between Newcastle United and Everton. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127167 1 (1) Manchester United 175.8 (251.4) 2 (2) Juventus 152.7 (218.3) 3 (4) AC Milan 140 (200.2) 4 (6) Real Madrid 134.7 (192.6) 5 (3) Bayern Munich 113.8 (162.7) 6 (12) Inter Milan 113.6 (162.4) 7 (8) Arsenal 104.6 (149.6) 8 (5) Liverpool 104.4 (149.4) 9 (13) Newcastle 97.1 (138.9) 10 (7) Chelsea 93.6 (133.8) 11 (10) Roma 92.6 (132.4) 12 (15) Borussia Dortmund 86.7 (124.0) 13 (9) Barcelona 86.3 (123.4) 14 (n/a) Schalke 04 82.9 (118.6) 15 (16) Tottenham 66.9 (95.6) 16 (11) Leeds 64.3 (92.0) 17 (14) Lazio 62.2 (88.9) 18 (17) Celtic 60.8 (87.0) 19 (20) Olympique Lyonnais 58.9 (84.3) 20 (n/a) Valencia 56.3 (80.5). I was hoping for the 15 years you talked about. Where did I mention 15 years you disgraceful wallpushing bastard? I said we've been wealthier than them in one season for over £40m can you not read, generally it was always 20-30m but I made the point that that particular season our income would've been £10m more than normal cos of the CL. fucking hilarious. You think I'd pose as a blue dipper to annoy you PMSL mate if you died tomorrow I wouldn't notice or care, even if someone came on this board and said "see that cunt Pacino he's died" I'd think "poor cunt", and that would be it. You deluded nobhead. If they annoy you, they must talk sense whoever they are. Someone sounds upset, truth hurt? You said 'Newcastle have over the last 15 years had a turnover over £40m more than Everton' I was actually more interested in your 15 year source, not the 'facts' you come out with, I take no notice of them anyway, they too often turn out to be wrong. I don't think, I believe, that you would pose as anyone, and have a conversation with yourself, to back up your points. I'm not your mate and if I died tomorrow why would I think you'd know about it? Sounds like you take the net far too seriously, you need a life sonny boy. Me deluded, the fucking irony. Amusement isn't annoyance. The last paragraph seems to be a drunken effort at an insult, a frenchman teaching english wouldn't know what the fuck you're on about or what to say to his pupils, and neither do I. Drink could be your main problem I think. Can you answer a question though, do you believe there's a thing called "the Liverpool way", and if you do can you describe what it is, and what's so different about it from other clubs. Why am I not surprised you choose to say you don't understand it, nor give a source for your 15 year quote? You understand it totally but it's too near the truth for you accept. Yes, there is 'The Liverpool way' but why would I want to explain it to someone who wouldn't understand it in a million years?

You Your Evertonian is wrong, how come you always come out with these silly made up stories just to back up your own wishful thinking? The uni did a postcode survey about 8 or 9 years ago now, and it worked out that Liverpool had a higher local fanbase than Everton, not by much, but enough. There are also weak links to establishing local fanbase, like I have all my life met more reds in the city than blues. Scouse adults don't tend to wear replica shirts other than going to the match, but the kids do, and it's always been more red than blue. Also, I've been to many a function where the band playing are from outside the area, and for some reason they think they should end the night with YNWA, a local band just wouldn't do it. The amount of clapping and singing would tell you quite easily how many reds there are to blues, it's always massive. Istanbul tended to bring in more oots and oocs. Out of curiosity could you provide a source for your last 15 years and having 40 million more than Everton over that period? Not that I disbelieve you, I'm just interested. I'll get him to post his thoughts on here if you like. I don't what I would have to gain in saying that.- What, open another account? Maybe you could be blueboy or sandpiper. His your thoughts are shite, and you/he have no idea of what you're talking about. Gain? When talking about Liverpool FC you always have your own jealousy driven agenda, I find it amusing. I haven't worn a replica top since I was about 16, but every time I've been to Anfield which is a lot, you see lots of replica shirts being worn by all ages. - What has whether YOU wear a replica shirt got to do with anything? I said, other than at the match, Scouse adults don't wear replica shirts much. Anyway I was wrong our turnover must've been more than £40m more than Everton's at one point, pretty shite source this granted but it's also a true one, and if you look you'll find an official link somewhere anyway. In fact I can't even remember Everton ever being in the richlist. We were even in it in our relegation season, all I was doing was highlighting the commercial and financial difference in size between Newcastle United and Everton. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127167 1 (1) Manchester United 175.8 (251.4) 2 (2) Juventus 152.7 (218.3) 3 (4) AC Milan 140 (200.2) 4 (6) Real Madrid 134.7 (192.6) 5 (3) Bayern Munich 113.8 (162.7) 6 (12) Inter Milan 113.6 (162.4) 7 (8) Arsenal 104.6 (149.6) 8 (5) Liverpool 104.4 (149.4) 9 (13) Newcastle 97.1 (138.9) 10 (7) Chelsea 93.6 (133.8) 11 (10) Roma 92.6 (132.4) 12 (15) Borussia Dortmund 86.7 (124.0) 13 (9) Barcelona 86.3 (123.4) 14 (n/a) Schalke 04 82.9 (118.6) 15 (16) Tottenham 66.9 (95.6) 16 (11) Leeds 64.3 (92.0) 17 (14) Lazio 62.2 (88.9) 18 (17) Celtic 60.8 (87.0) 19 (20) Olympique Lyonnais 58.9 (84.3) 20 (n/a) Valencia 56.3 (80.5). I was hoping for the 15 years you talked about. Where did I mention 15 years you disgraceful wallpushing bastard? I said we've been wealthier than them in one season for over £40m can you not read, generally it was always 20-30m but I made the point that that particular season our income would've been £10m more than normal cos of the CL. fucking hilarious. You think I'd pose as a blue dipper to annoy you PMSL mate if you died tomorrow I wouldn't notice or care, even if someone came on this board and said "see that cunt Pacino he's died" I'd think "poor cunt", and that would be it. You deluded nobhead. If they annoy you, they must talk sense whoever they are. Someone sounds upset, truth hurt? You said 'Newcastle have over the last 15 years had a turnover over £40m more than Everton' I was actually more interested in your 15 year source, not the 'facts' you come out with, I take no notice of them anyway, they too often turn out to be wrong. I don't think, I believe, that you would pose as anyone, and have a conversation with yourself, to back up your points. I'm not your mate and if I died tomorrow why would I think you'd know about it? Sounds like you take the net far too seriously, you need a life sonny boy. Me deluded, the fucking irony. Amusement isn't annoyance.

That was the reason he gave, but most blues at the time were disgusted because he deserted them. It was a marriage after all.

I agree with that to an extent Craig, I've always said only Liverpool should have been banned, but with a football hating PM a blanket ban was inevitable. Having said that, I think Howard Kendall leaving when he did, left Everton in the shit as much as not being in the EC. If they could have kept up their challenge for domestic dominance they would have been a higher profile club when the ban was over. Appointing Colin Harvey to replace Kendall was a backward step in retrospect, and at the time far from Evertonians blaming LFC, they called Kendall every name under the sun for deserting them. As with all things, memories change with time and the more successful Liverpool were the more bitter Evertonians became.

You Your Evertonian is wrong, how come you always come out with these silly made up stories just to back up your own wishful thinking? The uni did a postcode survey about 8 or 9 years ago now, and it worked out that Liverpool had a higher local fanbase than Everton, not by much, but enough. There are also weak links to establishing local fanbase, like I have all my life met more reds in the city than blues. Scouse adults don't tend to wear replica shirts other than going to the match, but the kids do, and it's always been more red than blue. Also, I've been to many a function where the band playing are from outside the area, and for some reason they think they should end the night with YNWA, a local band just wouldn't do it. The amount of clapping and singing would tell you quite easily how many reds there are to blues, it's always massive. Istanbul tended to bring in more oots and oocs. Out of curiosity could you provide a source for your last 15 years and having 40 million more than Everton over that period? Not that I disbelieve you, I'm just interested. I'll get him to post his thoughts on here if you like. I don't what I would have to gain in saying that.- What, open another account? Maybe you could be blueboy or sandpiper. His your thoughts are shite, and you/he have no idea of what you're talking about. Gain? When talking about Liverpool FC you always have your own jealousy driven agenda, I find it amusing. I haven't worn a replica top since I was about 16, but every time I've been to Anfield which is a lot, you see lots of replica shirts being worn by all ages. - What has whether YOU wear a replica shirt got to do with anything? I said, other than at the match, Scouse adults don't wear replica shirts much. Anyway I was wrong our turnover must've been more than £40m more than Everton's at one point, pretty shite source this granted but it's also a true one, and if you look you'll find an official link somewhere anyway. In fact I can't even remember Everton ever being in the richlist. We were even in it in our relegation season, all I was doing was highlighting the commercial and financial difference in size between Newcastle United and Everton. http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127167 1 (1) Manchester United 175.8 (251.4) 2 (2) Juventus 152.7 (218.3) 3 (4) AC Milan 140 (200.2) 4 (6) Real Madrid 134.7 (192.6) 5 (3) Bayern Munich 113.8 (162.7) 6 (12) Inter Milan 113.6 (162.4) 7 (8) Arsenal 104.6 (149.6) 8 (5) Liverpool 104.4 (149.4) 9 (13) Newcastle 97.1 (138.9) 10 (7) Chelsea 93.6 (133.8) 11 (10) Roma 92.6 (132.4) 12 (15) Borussia Dortmund 86.7 (124.0) 13 (9) Barcelona 86.3 (123.4) 14 (n/a) Schalke 04 82.9 (118.6) 15 (16) Tottenham 66.9 (95.6) 16 (11) Leeds 64.3 (92.0) 17 (14) Lazio 62.2 (88.9) 18 (17) Celtic 60.8 (87.0) 19 (20) Olympique Lyonnais 58.9 (84.3) 20 (n/a) Valencia 56.3 (80.5). I was hoping for the 15 years you talked about.

Thanks JawD.

You Your Evertonian is wrong, how come you always come out with these silly made up stories just to back up your own wishful thinking? The uni did a postcode survey about 8 or 9 years ago now, and it worked out that Liverpool had a higher local fanbase than Everton, not by much, but enough. There are also weak links to establishing local fanbase, like I have all my life met more reds in the city than blues. Scouse adults don't tend to wear replica shirts other than going to the match, but the kids do, and it's always been more red than blue. Also, I've been to many a function where the band playing are from outside the area, and for some reason they think they should end the night with YNWA, a local band just wouldn't do it. The amount of clapping and singing would tell you quite easily how many reds there are to blues, it's always massive. Istanbul tended to bring in more oots and oocs. Out of curiosity could you provide a source for your last 15 years and having 40 million more than Everton over that period? Not that I disbelieve you, I'm just interested.

There are so many debates in local pubs about this. Everton have averaged around 35, 000 for the last 15 years, have two (or is there also one on the Wirral) merchandise outlets, and had to sell to buy, where has the money gone? For me Everton started on a decline when Dr David Marsh, who had an ordinary GP practice in Walton, became chairman. He seemed small time to me with no vision. It was him who said you didn't need a bigger stand or corporate boxes because football was on a decline, and so amended the original plan for a two tiered stand to a single tier. Considering the stature of some of your former chairman, Marsh was a really big downgrade.

Aye Malmo! One of the years Liverpool did fuck all in Europe they lost 4-0 or 5-0 to the massive DINAMO TBLISI iirc. When you watch old videos of Liverpool, I know you shouldn't compare era's but that team now would achieve fuck all. Their best team imo was 87/88 with Beardsley, Barnes and Aldridge. Yeah Sammy Heysel was a moment waiting to happen for that club. What makes me think even worse of them is that they think they set trends off (they may have done its in all honesty before my time) with their Tacchini trackies etc.. which they got from their European excursions, but what makes me cringe so much is their Robin Hood style promotion of robbing their way round Europe bringing this gear back. They all laugh about it now, I've seen Tommy Smith recounting tales about it. If that was Newcastle I'd look back on that as a stain on our history, robbing every fucking town we come to, hardly promoting good will is it? Heysel was a moment waiting to happen for any team in Europe in that era and as we were the British team that was dominating football on the continent, no surprise that it was us. We did set trends. Robbing only happened with Liverpool fans didn’t it? FFS, I don’t know about banners or anything else being cringeworthy, you beat everything for that. Unfortunastely for your little jealous streak we have a lot of goodwill in Europe. Our fans have lots of liaisons with European fans every time we play in Europe. Some meetings between our fans and opposition ones have been going on for decades, even in Italy. In all the European matches I’ve gone to I’ve never felt any animosity from opposition fans, and have been welcomed in so many places with real warmth. Many’s the time they sing YNWA with us, they come over to chat when you’re in a bar, swap scarves and mementoes. I have so many good memories of European games and the fans that go with those teams. Even when they come to this city they come early for a good time and walk around the city centre chatting and having a laugh with the locals, The Cavern is packed as are all the Beatle bits. Many look on Anfield as hallowed ground and are excited to be there, getting their photo taken with the Shankly statue, the Paisley and Shankly gates, LFC fans, anything to add to their joy of being at Anfield. No stain here at all. All of that is not to say that hooliganism and fighting won’t happen in the future, no-one knows when it could happen, but up to now they are my experiences and though I’d love Heysel not to have happened, I wouldn’t swap being a Liverpool fan for anything in the world, I love every last thing about it.

Look at the teams we faced, in European football at that time it would be hard to face 6 harder sides. Waits for some pathetic quote from Shankly about "the cup with the big ears" or some equally pathetic pass me the bucket scouse pish. Like those utterly cringeworthy seventies banners the Kop used to hold up "MOSES SAID COME FORTH, SHANKS SAID NO WE'LL COME FIRST" fuckin scousers man. There was only one I liked, which was on Scouse churches in the 60's which would read: 'Jesus Saves' and then be graffitied: 'St John scores on the rebound' Usual Scouse nonsense though as you say, if anything it was a competition that was gaining in prestige due to the teams in it and by the time we won it just before Uefa 'adopted' it it was one of the three European honours that we all grew up with. Makes me cringe when you hear stuff like that from the dippers though. Seriously, 1978 they won four games, including the almighty Bruges in the final. Club Brugge for fucks sake. I know basically you just needed to be a well run club to achieve the successes they had, we had a bigger support right prior to Shankly, had more trophies, but all I ask is for someone to show me pre-1990 which team had a tougher route to a European trophy than we did in 1969. I'm not even being biased. I think the fact England didn't qualify for a major tournament from 1970 to 1980 emphasises how poor our football was in this country, yet despite that our clubs were European Champions five times in that period. It shows everything was much of a muchness, had we had a decent board then we could be the global club they are today. In some ways though I don't envy that when you see the profile of their support. You're the same age as me Sammy so you'll have grown up with the same football media coverage, Sportsneet on a Wednesday, the big match on a sunday now and then, Saint & Greavsie, Football Focus etc...and I'm not wrong in hearing the phrase said many time "the UEFA Cup is often harder to win than the European Cup" am I? Gobshite, you’re slobbering again, put your dummy back in. If all that was needed was to be well run then there were lots of teams should have won loads of trophies. It was about all the right people being brought together at the right time. Shanks was appointed because the chairman specifically wanted him above anyone else. Shanks bought the players that he thought best for the job to be done, with the help of a board who wanted to see the team get back to winning titles. Prior to Shanks coming we were in the 2nd div and considering you were in the 1st the attendance difference isn’t that much. LFC 1958 4 2 26 38.476 QF 1957 3 2 25 35.743 3 1956 3 2 25 37.224 5 1955 11 2 33 36.215 5 1954 22 1 22 40.488 NUFC 1958 19 1 19 36.241 4 1957 17 1 17 35.202 4 1956 11 1 11 37.666 QF 1955 8 1 8 42.925 Winners 1954 15 1 15 45.392 Unfortunately you’re always biased. The fairs cup was for also rans and even then the teams that were excluded reduced the quality again. At least with the EC it was for champions only, no matter which country they were champions of. You keep going on about this decent board and how you didn’t have one when the TRUTH is you didn’t have a good enough team. If you can’t face that fact you’re more deluded than I thought. Shanks and Paisley had a net spend of 2.3 million over a 22 year period up until 1983. I think even a gobshite like you will accept that to spend so little means they had the ability to find gems in lower leagues and bring them through. Something any club could have done. You make me laugh when you talk about fan profiles because if you were the representation of all Newcastle fans then you’d be laughed out of the league. You can’t know how pleased I am to know that you don’t envy our support, we have enough gobshites of our own to contend with. You’re wrong. The Fairs Cup and UEFA cup are two different comps, no matter how much one was the forerunner of the other. You could never qualify from coming 10th in the UEFA Cup. The fair play team is the only concession in that way.

Look at the teams we faced, in European football at that time it would be hard to face 6 harder sides. Waits for some pathetic quote from Shankly about "the cup with the big ears" or some equally pathetic pass me the bucket scouse pish. Like those utterly cringeworthy seventies banners the Kop used to hold up "MOSES SAID COME FORTH, SHANKS SAID NO WE'LL COME FIRST" fuckin scousers man. Our banners are famous the world over. Some are fantastic, some are shite, and some are even cringe worthy, but they are ours and they certainly add colour, humour and sarcasm to the atmosphere. My favourites are Joey ate the frogs legs etc…….Oh and to Gala . If you think this is hell etc…. I’m very proud of our differences to other teams in the Premier League, we don’t need free scarves or free flags to wave. We are different and I love it. BTW, Shanks loved the UEFA Cup as well as the EC.

If you're going to harp on about old formats like, then you might as well concede four of your five European Cups are the cheapo version. The mighty Notts Forest even managed to bag themselves a couple of them ones. I don't necessarily subscribe to that opinion, but you clearly can't have it both ways. Under the old format, you only had to win five games on the belt and some of them games could be against giants like Crusaders etc. Your first cup in '77: 1st round Crusaders (Belfast part timers) 2nd round Trabzonspor Quarters Saint-Etienne Semis Zurich Final Borussia Monchengladbach Ok you had to win your own league, but the upshot of that was that you might only meet one decent side during the entire knock out competition. You'd have been better just saying nowt tbh. Not really. There’s a big difference there. Those teams we met were the best team their countries had to offer, they were real Champions. No qualification from second, never mind 10th. The CL as it is now is more prestigious, glamourous and lucrative, but it isn’t played by Champions alone, as it should be. When they changed the format that automatically diluted the UEFA Cup, similar to the Fairs Cup, one team one city rule did. We won it in 2001 but it wasn’t as good as winning it in 75/76 when it was about great teams on the way down, declining, or new good teams on their way up.

Well said Marra, the Mags are all high and mighty because they had a couple of good years under Sir Bobby before disgracefully hounding the great man out of the job. They then distastefully hijacked all the headlines after his death, despite treating him like shite near the end of his tenure. Is it any wonder the giant of the game that Sir Bobby was, spent more time watching Sunderland than Newcastle in the last couple of years of his life? Explain how and what exactly was distasteful you inbred Consett bamp. What do I need to explain? Even Craig Bellamy said it in an interview a couple of weeks back. He said the fans were whingeing because Newcastle hadn't won the title (lol Newcastle win the title haha), I'll actually find the quote for you marra. Bellamy is an arsehole who is bitter at the abuse he receives to this day, when Souness basically ostracised him. He will die an immature man, he said even at the height of Sounessgate, he couldn't play against Newcastle cos it would hurt him too much. He's a little divvy like you. Bellamy didn't mention anything about hijacking the headlines after his death, what are you about you arsehole, explain about hijacking headlines after his death, or you admit you're doil. Wasn't it you who said he'd do anything to go back to your club.

Conclusions? Oh I see it now. The teams you played, like yourselves, were also rans. The other teams were Champions.

The Fairs Cup was a European Trophy and rightly belongs in your honours list, but to add any more importance to it than it deserved is ridiculous. You qualified from 10th place becuase of the only one team from one city rule, which meant at least 3 other teams were excluded. It was set up to promote trade fairs and although there were good teams entering it was never a fair comp because of the silly rules. Still a European trophy though.