adios

Yes it is, I'm interested in why it took you so long to say that. Google is our friend, hey, AF?

Congratulations! Quite like the name Jacob, may shamelessly copy it at some point.

That entire post is made up of childish name-calling and no value, I'll give this one more go. You've failed to answer questions about Pirzig and a few others since that post. Read them, answer them reasonably, without resorting to name-calling. Or I'm done here. How does someone with 16 letters after his name feel so inferior?

Let me try and make this simple for you. If Bruner is a one strike and out kind of guy I doubt I'd have much time for him. That's a conditional, I assumed nothing. "Bruner would help you get the picture though. I can post you a copy if you wish. Racism is one strike and out." The positioning of those comments, from talking about the author to a totalitarian ideal, led me to believe you were referring to his beliefs. See how that works? If you walk into every situation assuming you're already ahead of the game, when exactly do you learn anything new? As you've already recommended Bruner to me and then suggested I should read it as I might learn something, several minutes later. Am I supposed to have read it by now? How do you think that anyone of even average intelligence is going to see that as anything other than a cheap wind-up? Usually reserved for the ickle kiddies and holidays, Professor.

The mind boggles. 49409[/snapback] Assuming the people here had one. Apologies for grammar and typing. Wasnt aware it was it a test. As for 1sr year sociology? Nope 16 letters after name so far. More to come in December. Yourself? 49412[/snapback] I've got 11 letters in my name, first time I've ever checked that, had to use my fingers and all! How do you feel about Pirzig's arguments on the Church of Reason?

I feel privileged, honestly. The irony of you callling others bairns on this issue! If Bruner is a one strike and out kind of guy I doubt I'd have much time for him, I'm not really down with the totalitarian posse, ooh, racist, shame. The idea that I trivialise racism? Another pathetic misconception by yourself.

The mind boggles.

That you dont understand what the term 'culture' means is your problem. Read Bruner. He explains it perfectly. Yes , if it orginates in black culture and you read into it further then it is a facet of contemporary black culture. I'm afraid that whilst we have people who choose to ignore racism and its different nuances and connotations simply because they cant undertand then we have a problem. 49395[/snapback] So where would you draw the line exactly? How many years after a term is coined is it no longer offensive to that culture to use it in an offensive manner? I haven't read Bruner but I shall have a look. I don't feel handicapped by my obvious intellectual inferiority to your good self on this issue, though, thanks for your concern. EDIT: It's funny, you keep accusing other people of not understanding the subtle nuances and complexities of the racism debate and yet you're the only person I've seen in this thread that's incapable of seeing the whole picture and reducing arguments beyond their simplest components. Not to mention the name-calling and pseudo-intellectual gamesmanship. I'm going to go with 1st year sociology student.

I'm failing to see how that BBC quote states that bling describes a "black dress-code". I'm well aware of the origins of the word but I'm baffled. If a word originates in a certain culture its use always has conotations towards that culture? Do you really want me to explain how stupid that is? btw all page 3 taught me was what an ignorant pillock you've been to the members of this forum, hadn't realised. Won't make the mistake of treating you with the respect I had been showing, in spite of your increasingly ludicrous* arguments. *See that's actually racialist because I've been offensive to you using the name of a well known black rapper and figure-head for the African American community.

It's got more in common with, "He's a rich bastard, who should die." Is that racist?

You've just made that up.

There's still plenty around that believe in complete social inclusion, in my circles anyway.

Coloured(2): dated or offensive: wholly or partly of non-white descent. Bling-bling: US informal: expensive, ostentatious clothing and jewellery, or the wearing of them. Source: My Electronic OED thingy.

Isn't inciting racial hatred a crime?

I think you're typing this in full Nazi regalia tbh.

One is white. One is black. i havent seen Carr described needlessly as a 'potato picking tosser' or anything else related to his Irish blood and hence there is no real need to explain it. Is there? 49299[/snapback] I've called him a miserable, grumpy Paddy bastard many's a time. Well as long as you've never experienced it, that's ok. Irish people suffer bigotry in the UK btw.

He does play for Ireland though and he has Irish roots 49298[/snapback] I hope he doesn't play for Ireland any more. I've been cursed with the fecker twice, I really will always be grateful to Souness for getting rid, if for little else.

Apparently O'Brien isn't Irish. But Carr is, it was you who used the Baba/Carr comparison, bez?

Fuck, so he is. Replace 'O'Brien' with 'Carr', he's been used in the same context.

Some of the stuff I've said about O'Brien would make your ears bleed, there were times I hated him when he played for us and I got the impression that was the general feeling. JJ was always a big arguing point, an ever decreasing crowd waiting for his potential to start paying off and the people that were sick of waiting. I'm not sure of JJ's lifestyle but if it was anything like Dyer's then bling would not be an unfair comment, O'Brien's less bling than my granny. Also why are you so obsessed with racism only being a black thing? O'Brien is Irish you know.

Is that because they aren't really as capable as their peers but got the job due to positive discrimination? 49116[/snapback] No, neither. There are cases (many of them) where BLACK people /women/black women etc (those we know from the statistics published by the DTI,EOC are discrimated against) DO THE SAME JOB (exactly the same job) and get paid less for it. Now, this happens regularly enough to put a 20% disparity between women and men doing EXACTLY THE SAME JOB across the UK. Nowt to do with ability. Lots to do with prejudice. The point is, if British society is capable of this then what makes NUFC any different in its ability to tolerate Black players and treat them equally? Now, MOST people are rational. Most people also have some prejudice of some sort somewhere, however much we have rightly pushed it away. Given Andy Coles return to SJP and the bile (much of it involving the word BLACK) and the ridiculous comments made about players recently: Compare these comments from forums: JJ (break legs/die/bling bastard etc) with AOB (shit). The vitriol is very different. The same with Baba/Carr. Dyer when not playing (waste of spunk) and Bowyer when not "playing". Whether we care to see it or not there is an undercurrent. Not as visible as it used to be but a bigger issue than some who care to acknowledge. For every exception to the rule there is another example we can mention. Nobody has said that SJP has turned into Burnley. Not have we said that every poster is Nick Griffin. However, racism is on the rise nationally in many ways. Politically, the NF/BNP are gaining some ground. Tensions go with it. To ignore it is fine. We have had that bullshit line from several people. So why do we have an EOC? KROF? Anyway, at least some people have decided to think (for a change) Next time you or the people sat next to you at the match or the pub slag Stephen Carr, ask yourself whether it was preceded with a moniker related to his ancestry and culture. did they do the other lads the same courtesy? One strike and out is the racism rule in football grounds. Until we have eradicated the problem entirely we need to keep on eye on it and perhaps some people will notice we arent as free from it as many suggest. 49258[/snapback] That's a pretty sizable response to a joke comment! I agree with you that society has to be pro-actively anti-racist for quite a long time to come but there is a whole other side to this argument. If you just say racism is wrong and let's put together some blanket policies to stop it the problems you end up with are just as bad. Labelling things as racist which aren't racist, making people afraid to discuss the issues, hysteria and quite possibly positive discrimination. Here's food for thought, why not just positively discriminate for poor, underprivileged people? Starting with better education and public health.

If the language above was used on NO, HTT would wash their mouths out with soap, smack their bottoms and send them to bed with no tea. For my money, he'd enjoy it a little too much and all.

No, the problem is the grief they'll get from others. Is that grief racist? Yes. Is it wrong to protect someone you love from that? No. I'm not saying it's great that things are that way, but recognising that racism is a real problem (on both sides) and protecting people from it is not racism. PS EDIT: On the positive discrimination in football comment, have a look at the starting 11 of a lot of clubs, is it really neccessary?

You see I can't see how you've turned a father being worried about his daughter getting hassled about going out with a black fella into 'irrational hatred'. I'd call that pretty sensationalist. I was trying to point out that labelling things like that racist, stands in the way of decent debate. I didn't say the other but very clearly - I meant: Fathers are often irrational in their protection of their daughters but to see a problem and protect their daughter from it is rational. On the working class issue, I'm not looking at statistics, I'm speaking from personal experience. I have a working class background (in Ireland) and it's the worst racism I've experienced. I have hung around with all classes in a number of countries (including England) and that hasn't changed my opinion. I think fear is produced by ignorance, which in turn produces hatred. I don't feel the working classes are given the same opportunities for education. It's not really controversial though, I don't think. Just seen your PS, if you do that again, I'm pretty sure Ctrl-Z will fix your problem.

0.0001 <-- I just want to know who that bloke is.