adios

I was talking about you though.

Penis envy tbh.

I know what you mean, I'm surprised it took someone as long as this to pick me up on it. I just feel that if an English club had a problem with racism like some did 20 years ago they would not be allowed into the league now. For me Celtic and Rangers have a problem of that scale now. It certainly doesn't seem to get the attention it needs to get sorted, maybe people don't shout loudly enough about this divide, God forbid there were Jews or Muslims involved!

Bit harsh, they're brain-washed kids. The mother's another story. Quite fancy one of those t-shirts though!

Which is the only team in the English Leagues whose name starts with 5 consonants?

Well done Omar, you've just confirmed yourself as nothing more that a wind-up merchant. I'll leave you to it. Try to stop ruining threads.

Who would that be?

Oh look, Omar behaving like an arrogant twit, there's a turn-up for the books. I'll put it down to a language barrier as I'm making the assumoption based on your granmmar that the English language isn't you strong point?

I think swinging left on social services and right on law and order makes you more of a communist than centrist. You're right, I think there's far too many people on both sides of this debate who behave like children. The Guardian used to be a great paper but it's now just an anti-Bush / plastic-liberal rag which has lost all credibility, with me anyway. The Daily Mail has been the other side of that coin for a long time. I feel it's important to see where both sides are mistaken. I would say I'm pretty much straight down the middle on all issues. There will be collateral damage when you invade a country but how you decide to break that down is important. Flattening a city remotely and then sending in the boys to tidy up is not ok with me. Soldiers put their lives on the line, it's what they do. We should be aiming to limit civilian casualties, not military casualties, in all conflicts. And the point about oil is not a small one. We, the west, need to take responsibility for what our leaders have done in the distant past, recent past, and are still doing today and understand that people are going to feel a certain way about us, the same way we would when we see an Arab with a backpack. Those lads in Gibraltar are a good example. They would consider themselves soldiers on active duty, they were killed in the line of duty. And I wouldn't shed a tear for terrorists but what happens when a bit of over zealous security guns down an innocent? That Brazilian chap in London, for example. The 3 shot dead would have felt they were fighting against ancient oppressors and would probably have witnessed some shocking atrocities against innocent people around them. They didn't just decide they fancied killing a few innocent people. And the tourists watching the changing of the guard? Collateral damage, something their 'army' had to regard as acceptable to do their job. We can't do anything about the fact that England was once a mighty conquerer, we can't do anything about the fact that more than one 'Bloody Sunday' occured but what we can do is treat soldiers who commit atrocities as terrorists and politicians who war for profit or prop up dictators as war criminals. Basically ensure honesty in how these things are carried out. If we could find a way to do that I don't think there'd be many terrorists to protect us against. If we continue to do business the way we're dong it now then yes, I would suggest we need to get very, very right-wing about defence to survive. For the record, in case anyone chooses to misread what I'm saying, I'm not supporting or attempting to justify terrorism, I love/hate various aspects of England and Ireland equally, there's fuck all difference between us to be honest. I seem to be having some difficulty with short posts...

Grand, still want my brandy though.

Look at the bit I highlighted in bold, I was talking to Omar! EDIT: I'll have that Brandy though.

I can see disagreeing with you about the riots in Paris has hit a nerve. Anyway, what was it I said about Owen ? 55546[/snapback] Read that again LM, then go and get yourself a cup of coffee.

Does the man preaching about lack of football knowledge fancy admitting he was wrong about Michael Owen yet or would you like to wait a while, Omar?

No offence taken, I just think terms like "moral high ground, over righteous, do gooder, bleeding hearts, fancy dan lecturer" stand in the way of decent debate. Actually I quite liked that last one, it gave me a laugh. I do think people exist who have an unrealistic view of the situation and would be too soft on crime, I just think they're in a minority and I can't think of anyone on here who fits that bill, certainly not Rob. It just seems that every time that someone suggests an alternative to the system that isn't working you lump them into this category. There are as many on the left who annoy me as on the right, I just hate everyone really. How does that match up with what I've said only a couple of pages ago on this thread (pasted below), and expressed similar opinions many times before? I feel you've again made the assumption that I fit into one mind-set that covers anything left of yourself, if I tried the reverse that would make you Hitler's favourite drinking buddy. I don't think anyone should ever bomb anywhere. Are you asking what their motives are, or why a potential threat should be allowed in? I believe that it's impossible to stop the 'wrong people' getting into any country unless you class all muslims, for example, as potential terrorists or completely shut down the borders. The side effects of either would cause bigger problems than we currently have. I think the causes of terrorism are as extreme as the results, I don't think these people just randomly attack and for that reason I think we could try diffferent global policies to help prevent the spread of terrorism. If all's right with the world and there's still a minority who are commiting atrocities for giggles then shoot the fuckers for all I care. I'm not sure the UK is in any danger from leaning too far to the left right now on human rights issues. Do you think the US is safer?

That 'Feminist book of Jokes' is a real rib-tickler!

I think maybe he was being self-deprecating, you know, for fun.

I think Jimbo's argument is the most convincing!

Didn't know Cheryl Tweedy was Bekistani!

What the fuck are you on about? Look at that shite, you look sound like a Jackanory presenter! Seriously though, why throw all that shite at someone instead of just talking about it. I know you think you're opinion is right, otherwise it wouldn't be your opinion. You're certainly a lot surer of yours than I am of mine. I'd quite like to skip the insults and just stick to debating the issue, but if you say you know what you think and that's that, fair enough, but then why do you ever bother with these discussions? Maybe I'm thick but no, I don't know who you mean by us or them. I think 'us' are British citizens. But as has been mentioned in this thread a French national must not only be born there but also have French parents. Would the same definition be required for Britishness. I'm registered to vote in your generals but a few of "my kind" have commited terrorist atrocities in Britain. I've talked to enough British people who thought I was British being from the Republic of Ireland. Am I British, am I the enemy to you? I don't know, that's why I asked. I'd also like to know, what kinf of world are we bringing up our kids in once we deport all the shite out and keep all the decent folk? If I get where you coming from maybe we can have a decent chat about it and one or other of us might change our opinion.

Care to explain? 55431[/snapback] I think you know exactly what leazesmag was saying by his "us" and "our own" comments, seems like a few of us on here are waiting for leazes personal interpretation before jumping on him from their own personal moral high-ground. 55435[/snapback] I'll admit that I am of the opinion that some of Leazes' opinions of foreigners seem a little dubious to me. He seems like a pretty sensible poster so instead of making assumptions and jumping on him I'd like to really understand what he's on about. That's why I asked for a detailed opinion. How that makes me facetious I'm not sure. For the record I would regard my opinions as centrist but there are a few on here who lump anyone who would consider anything other than burning criminals and raping their wives "bloody pinko commies." I genuinely fail to understand whether people think that certain races have a genetic predisposition to crime and whether they think that deporting all out problems is going to do anything other than create a fucking scary world outside of their imagined utopia.

I had the same impression, it might explain why the problems in Bordeaux are not so bad at the moment. I'm all for integration but we have to draw the line somewhere and realise when the piss is being taken. I have some very liberal Dutch friends who's opinions of the Morrocan situation in Holland does not sound so liberal. In every country I'm familiar with the young in poor working class areas of all races are creating a serious 'chav' culture. Obviously that's being expressed differently depending on the situation. I hear alot of mixed opinions on the Le Pen issue. Many are embarrased that he got the support he did but I hear also, mainly from the young, that voting Le Pen was never about getting him into power but about protesting to the current leadership.

Care to explain?

She probably deserved it to be honest.

that is exaclty my situation actually, but i do have french nationality (since ive been 18) but then again as i'm not algerian, maroccan, then i suppose im lucky not to suffer from discrimination. You can sense tensions in a lot of areas, from what are second generations of immigrants. As a lot of youth are stuck in between two cultures/countries, promoting their differences in France whilst not being welcome in their country of "origin" anyway, im glad Bordeaux seems to be rather quiet. 55394[/snapback] I lived near Bordeaux for a few months and I got the impression that while it's an industrial city it differs from a lot of the other large cities in it's racial breakdown. I'd be interested to get your view on that. I feel there's a very large racial element to these riots and these things work both ways. I think the reason it started takes the piss. I also have a very different opinion of France now than before I lived here, others may think as I did, it may be quite left-wing in some ways but it's very police-state in others. Leazes - I would like a really definitive idea from you as to who 'us' and 'our own' are to you?