toon_don

Is it madder than £10m for Smalling who's played 13 league games in his whole career? I didn't even notice that one, who is he? And didn't Man U already flog one of their big money Serbian 'prodigies' at a massive loss recently? I understand going for up and coming talent, but how can someone with no experience be worth that much?

Wolves paid nearly £7m for Fletcher? There's ambition and then there's madness. Clearly we need to find a happy middle ground

I don't think he's very good, but at the same time I don't think a lot of the side's we'll be realistically competing with next season have very good strikers either. Is he significantly worse than Cameron Jerome, Zamora, Carlton Cole, Kevin Davies and the like? I don't think believe he is. I hope he's not one of our first choice strikers next season, because even with our budget we should be able to find better, but his scoring record each season is generally a goal every 3 starts, which isn't terrible. I've advocated us going after Boyd from Rangers for a while, because at the moment we don't have a genuine goalscorer in our squad (with the possible exception of Lovenkrands), but that won't happen and it looks like we're going to have to make the best of what we've got. Do I think Ameobi will be able to lead the line effectively next season? No. Do I think he is capable of being useful as a squad player? Yes. Kevin Davies is miles better than Ameobi. Who was the last striker to come out of the sunday league scoring goals against 3rd division standard opposition to uphole their reputation down here too ? If you're talking about the SPL, Steven Fletcher this season at Burnley. Came from Hibs and got 12 league goals in a terrible terrible side. we'll see how he progresses. Before him ? Even the most ardent Scottish football supporter would admit if they are honest, very few players up there are class. Look at the Rangers team that has won the league ? Its full of 2nd division players and ex premiership players who are past their best and/or were never much good anyway. That's fair enough. I'm not actually Scottish, I just happen to be at uni in Aberdeen and have a season ticket down at Pittodrie, so I've got a fair idea of the standard, and, as you say there's an awful lot of dross in that league. At the same time though, just like in the Championship, there are some affordable players who I reckon could cut it at Premiership level. Bougherra, Wilson, Davis and Boyd at Rangers, McGeady at Celtic and Goncalves at Hearts are all players that I've seen who I reckon could player at a higher level. I would also have added MacArthur at Hamilton to that, but it looks like he's made a move to Wigan. Depends on your aspirations. Me ? I can't think of a good one to come down from Scotland since Gordon Strachan. Stilian Petrov has proved to be a really good signing for Villa, and they're in the kind of position we should be aspiring to achieve. I understand what you mean about not wanting players who are just going to be average, and we shouldn't be looking for journeyman. But for us to become a good premier league side again, we're going to have to first become an established decent side, and I think the players I've mentioned would all add something to our squad, and some would be first 11 players.

I don't think he's very good, but at the same time I don't think a lot of the side's we'll be realistically competing with next season have very good strikers either. Is he significantly worse than Cameron Jerome, Zamora, Carlton Cole, Kevin Davies and the like? I don't think believe he is. I hope he's not one of our first choice strikers next season, because even with our budget we should be able to find better, but his scoring record each season is generally a goal every 3 starts, which isn't terrible. I've advocated us going after Boyd from Rangers for a while, because at the moment we don't have a genuine goalscorer in our squad (with the possible exception of Lovenkrands), but that won't happen and it looks like we're going to have to make the best of what we've got. Do I think Ameobi will be able to lead the line effectively next season? No. Do I think he is capable of being useful as a squad player? Yes. Kevin Davies is miles better than Ameobi. Who was the last striker to come out of the sunday league scoring goals against 3rd division standard opposition to uphole their reputation down here too ? If you're talking about the SPL, Steven Fletcher this season at Burnley. Came from Hibs and got 12 league goals in a terrible terrible side. we'll see how he progresses. Before him ? Even the most ardent Scottish football supporter would admit if they are honest, very few players up there are class. Look at the Rangers team that has won the league ? Its full of 2nd division players and ex premiership players who are past their best and/or were never much good anyway. That's fair enough. I'm not actually Scottish, I just happen to be at uni in Aberdeen and have a season ticket down at Pittodrie, so I've got a fair idea of the standard, and, as you say there's an awful lot of dross in that league. At the same time though, just like in the Championship, there are some affordable players who I reckon could cut it at Premiership level. Bougherra, Wilson, Davis and Boyd at Rangers, McGeady at Celtic and Goncalves at Hearts are all players that I've seen who I reckon could player at a higher level. I would also have added MacArthur at Hamilton to that, but it looks like he's made a move to Wigan.

I don't think he's very good, but at the same time I don't think a lot of the side's we'll be realistically competing with next season have very good strikers either. Is he significantly worse than Cameron Jerome, Zamora, Carlton Cole, Kevin Davies and the like? I don't think believe he is. I hope he's not one of our first choice strikers next season, because even with our budget we should be able to find better, but his scoring record each season is generally a goal every 3 starts, which isn't terrible. I've advocated us going after Boyd from Rangers for a while, because at the moment we don't have a genuine goalscorer in our squad (with the possible exception of Lovenkrands), but that won't happen and it looks like we're going to have to make the best of what we've got. Do I think Ameobi will be able to lead the line effectively next season? No. Do I think he is capable of being useful as a squad player? Yes. Kevin Davies is miles better than Ameobi. Who was the last striker to come out of the sunday league scoring goals against 3rd division standard opposition to uphole their reputation down here too ? If you're talking about the SPL, Steven Fletcher this season at Burnley. Came from Hibs and got 12 league goals in a terrible terrible side.

I don't think he's very good, but at the same time I don't think a lot of the side's we'll be realistically competing with next season have very good strikers either. Is he significantly worse than Cameron Jerome, Zamora, Carlton Cole, Kevin Davies and the like? I don't think believe he is. I hope he's not one of our first choice strikers next season, because even with our budget we should be able to find better, but his scoring record each season is generally a goal every 3 starts, which isn't terrible. I've advocated us going after Boyd from Rangers for a while, because at the moment we don't have a genuine goalscorer in our squad (with the possible exception of Lovenkrands), but that won't happen and it looks like we're going to have to make the best of what we've got. Do I think Ameobi will be able to lead the line effectively next season? No. Do I think he is capable of being useful as a squad player? Yes.

I'm absolutely astounded by that to be honest. The small optimism I had for next season was based on the fact that, after being relegated, Ashley would allow Hughton to spend a reasonable amount of cash (~£15 million) if only to protect his investment. I'd always thought he did have vaguely good intentions, but after this I'm firmly in the Leazes Mag corner, if all this comes to pass there's no way back for Ashley and his lot as far as I'm concerned That they've decided to be so monumentally stupid again is beyond belief, and I feel incredibly sorry for Hughton. If we stay up now it will be a miracle, and I can't see it tbh.

The thing that really winds me up is when other fans tell us the main reasons Newcastle went down is that we had hugely over paid mercenaries who weren't good enough, and we sacked Big Sam when he would have kept us up. Nobody ever points that he was responsible for signing the likes of Smith, Barton, Viduka, Cacapa and Geremi, that we failed to beat the worst side in premier league history over two games, and we played absolutely awful football. I can stomach poor football if progress is being made, but getting thrashed at home by Portsmouth, and losing to the likes of Derby, Reading and Wigan isn't progress. And the Fulham match at Craven Cottage, even though we won, is genuinely the worst game of football I've ever seen. Fulham had been and were atrocious that day, and yet we still turned up looking for a 0-0, and happened to win a penalty in the last minute. The amount of revisionism that goes on when people talk about us is ridiculous.

What i said. It is frustrating but its worked, i just think at SOME places we would make life easier on ourselves by attacking and going for the juggular. Tonight being one of THOSE places. To answer your question...Guthrie I think the problem is on the back of the Cardiff win, he went for that approach against Derby, we got thumped and has been scared to do it since. So there is a little bit of logic.

I've been to several away games this season, but this'll be my first home game, partly because I live so far away, and also because Sky keep mucking about with the kick-off times which makes it almost impossible for me to get there and back in a day. I felt that I had to make a special effort to get to this one though because of the occasion. I'm sure there must be quite a few other fans with similar stories.

Barry Glendenning

Out of all the players Hughton has brought in this season, I'd say only Best and Pancrate have been poor. Routledge, Williamson and Van Aanholt (for the time he was here) have been very good signings imo Danny Simpson, Harewood, Zurab whatshisface and Fitz Hall have all done reasonable jobs. Only Pancrate and Best haven't really performed. That's not a bad record however you look at it.

What he does is takes things that have truth in them (eg doubts about Hughton) and twists them and stretches them as far as possible to suit his own agenda (who the hell has been calling for Keegan and Shearer?). The points about crowds and our 'disloyalty' is also a prime example of this. Crowds have gone down after relegation and during a recession, stop the press! He mentions Norwich's crowds going up after relegation, while at the same time forgetting to mention that they happened to extend their ground at the same time. He also doesn't take into account the huge drop in corporate attendances, which means even when the rest of the ground has been virtually full we haven't managed a 50,000 gate. And how about mentioning the fact that out of 21 home games so far this season, only 8 have been a 3 o'clock Saturday k/o. Or the fact that every away allocation has sold out? It's this kind of lazy, half-****d journalism that gets on my nerves.

Rob Lee and Les Ferdinand were really hated as well.

I'd imagine that would be the mean spend last summer, which would be hugely skewed by Man City's outlay. I reckon anything upwards of £20 million spent (which is of course a very big if) would put us in the top 6 or 7 spenders in the league.

According to Booby Moncur (at the game) it was the players that didnt turn up, in particular Jonas. From what I seen (on a stream) I thought he looked our most dangerous player, and I'm not a massive fan of him either. A typical away performance from us though, still can't believe he took Lovenkrands off for Butt. That, understandably, gave them a massive lift as it was obvious we were trying to settle. Good to see Carroll get another though. again, according to the radio we were been overun constantly and butts introduction allowed us to settle down leading to our most attacking spell of the game. In other words Butts introduction turned the tide. Moncurs opinion not mine as I only heard patches on the radio. Would have taken this pre-game so relatively happy. Not quite sure about that view on Butt. What I would say is that, for all the stick he's getting, from what I could say Best did well when he came on and caused them quite a few problems

So does Wayne Rooney. I refuse to believe that none of the big European clubs that all the players have played for have Doctors that wouldn't have picked up on this. Most of the article seems to be heresay to me.

And we only have to think back one season to remember what we've got in store in a fourth bottom season. Were it not for a horrendous cock-up by a vastly over-rated referee in the penultimate game last year we'd have finished exactly there. Season of Dross here we come! Fixed it for you In all seriousness though, promotion is the only thing to worry about. It's not like the trophy would be paraded through the streets should we win it (at least I hope it wouldn't).

If you get more points than everyone else you deserve a trophy

True, but you're allowed to support them in games like that now they're crap and are massive underdogs I'd rather had got Boyd than Beckford, but I doubt very much we'll sign either

This is just getting ridiculous now. I live in London and go to uni in Aberdeen, so apart from away games in and around London when I'm at home, the only games I can make are 3pm Saturday kick-offs. Last season, due to us being rubbish and never on tv I was able to get to quite a lot of home games. This year, I haven't been to a single match at SJP, as I can't justify buying train tickets a long way in advance when this kind of thing is likely to happen

Has he not said all of this before though? To be honest I think he's only looked a real player for a few games under Kinnear, other than that he's either not seemed bothered, been injured, suspended or in prison.

Christ, the standard of top league Scottish football must have changed a fair bit since I lived up there in the mid 90s, they had Larsson, Laudrup and Gazza there then and it was still fairly shite overall. Celtic and Rangers were the only half decent teams at the time and I can't imagine that's changed much, they had an easy time of it because the rest of the teams seemed to be equivalent to our old third division, old second division at best. I'm not saying it's great, but we've all seen the amount of rubbish in this league. Most SPL sides aren't markedly worse, and even if the overall standard isn't amazing, there are lots of individuals who could play at a much higher level. And I think Steven Fletcher at Burnley this season have proved that SPL strikers can cut it in the Premiership, and he certainly isn't the finisher Boyd is. I'd say he'd be less of a gamble than Beckford.

Got anything constructive to add?

I think that's a bit harsh. I reckon he is capable of doing it in a top league like the Prem, but not the way we play atm. Still don't like him though