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The only way it's getting elected is through PR. I've been reflecting on my views on this for the past half an hour and I suppose the truth to my position on this is worth mentioning. I'm not a left wing idealogue, I'm not chasing a particular vision of left wing government. What I am, is furious. I've been furious for years now. I am furious that we have Brexit, I'm furious that older voters who have had the easiest political lifespans in history consistently fuck over people in my generation and younger. I'm furious that we had 10 years of austerity because New Labour couldn't build a simple fucking narrative to challenge it. But more than anything at this point, I am incandescent that I am now meant to sit down and break bread with the fuckers who voted for all of this, that I'm meant to take one for the team and support weak and pathetic pandering to these people - people who don't analyse policy before voting, who don't inform themselves, and who are consistently voting against their own best interests due to some nebulous bullshit about patriotism. I'm meant to turn the other cheek on Brexit ffs, the greatest act of national self harm that this country has possibly ever seen - an act carried out by traitors and liars with the consent of the blind. There is no possible way I can stomach that, it's just not going to happen - and I am appalled that the fucking Labour party has thrown in to try and win over these people not by demonstrating the error of their ways, but by treating them as fucking children and lying to them about Brexit and "how they made the right choice but the Tories are just doing it wrong". And it expects me, you, all of us to be complicit in this. To all pretend that this is ok and to hide our real feelings and agendas until we get elected, at which point we do what? Either we do fuck all because we need these people to vote for us next time, or we introduce reform by stealth. The problem with the latter is, the people we need to hoodwink to get into power to do this, already know that this is our plan. They don't trust us to implement their fucked up right wing bullshit. And why the fuck would they? They're not children and we need to stop treating them like children. People in this country need to be battered over the head with the truth until it finally sinks the fuck in - and if it never does, then we didn't deserve a functional country in the first place. So if I'm an ideologue for any particular view, it's that. Not the left, not socialism, not utopias - just the fucking truth.

A man threatened to beat me up in a petrol station in Honiton today. He turned to me in the queue for the till and complained that I was standing too close to him, I was probably a yard & a half behind him. Said in a voice loud enough so the whole shop could hear “you’re affecting my anxiety” . Trouble was he was speaking without a mask on directly into my fully masked face. He got to the door and suggested that if I thought it was that funny (the whole shop was giggling) then he’d see me outside. I pointed out to him he was a very brave boy shouting that from the other end if the shop by the exit door and that it wouldn’t be good for his anxiety in the long run. Then I nearly ran over two twelve year olds (approx) on their scooters on the way home at a set of lights. They shot out in front of me just as the lights turned green. I beeped my horn at them, one of them turned round and gave me the wanker sign . I’ve just changed jobs. Today and yesterday I’ve been paired up with a manic racist Chelsea supporting (obvs) Freemason who speaks to himself. Have a good weekend everyone

Trouble is the people getting shafted didn't always vote for them, I don't know the rate of the disabled who vote conservative but after experiencing how they compassionately handle that group I'd be amazed if any do unless they're related to a minted family. Other hard done by groups with any memory at all surely will either abstain through apathy or absolutely not vote tory again?

Funny coincidence that every club you’ve been at has this same issue eh Steve?

Should have listened to me about Nandy. That's the top and bottom of it. You reap what you sow.

Aye. The bigger the bingo wings, the lower the chance of a mask being worn. If you see some absolute grapefruits with legs, you can pretty much guarantee no mask.

Apparently Bruce is in two minds on the heading/brain injury debate in football. Likely because he had a bit of brain fluid dripping out his ear at the time of asking.

IM A BUSY MAN. ffs I’ll stay in the guitar thread

the great irony of all of this: we literally had the best deal of any member state

I don't think a fully fledged referendum or rejoin campaign is the right answer, its just too toxic. But there should be a move to much closer trading ties (starting with regulatory alignment) and a move to fully join the EEA within 5 years (not the CU though). It will mean getting FoM back but only the fruit loops can be against this now. It would solve virtually all issues in NI and Dover. Also Scotland when they get independence and rejoin. It's also what Farage, Hannan, etc previously promised. I think Labour need to have this in their manifesto. As for joining the EU, honestly, I don't think they'd have us back. I am almost certain France would veto it. Most EU countries have benefited from Brexit and will continue to do so whilst we don't even bother enforcing our borders to goods.

I haven't even bothered reading about Starmer's proposals yet, I'll get round to it at some point. I just want a non-idealistic, pragmatic government who are genuinely invested in fairness and equality, and I'll compromise almost everything to get it. Your powerless in opposition, being a principled opposition party is absolutely fucking pointless. You take power, and then set the agenda. And forget about the EU for at least a decade. It's gone. We now need a progressive government to slowly and gradually repair the damage done by this one. It'll happen, we'll get there (if a Labour coalition gets elected), but its going to be painful and will take a lot of time. Also, Starmer may lose ideologues like you, but the ambition is to have net gains in votes in order to achieve power. It's the only way it can work with Labour, as Blair and Brown showed.

Aye Thats what we’re dealing with. A lot of people on the other side of the fence said similar about Corbyn, even ex coal miners i spoke to. “I’m not voting for that Marxist cunt” etc, just change Marxist for “centrist” or whatever. We’re fucked from every direction.

Tbh I’ve learned the hard way the last few years that the left is largely populated by complete fucking idiots who couldn’t lie straight in bed. Whilst the Tories dip their hands in the till the left are perpetually stuck in the life of brian sketch with all the different splinter groups.

You really have to give credit to the power of the message that the Tories are the boys to trust when they patently aren't yet here we are. It's not even a modern phenomenon as they sold everything off years ago but the same cunts will vote them in as a few scare stories, a few union jack/our boys patter, a few Hamas/PLO/IRA terrorist sympathisers tales, anti-royal communists craic etc, etc is all it takes, absolutely nailed on to convince over half of England that they're the party for me, and no mistake! We're fucked for now, I just hope the shit sandwich we're going to be served will wake enough dinosaurs up where it makes a difference to the vote.

I’m coming to an age now where I would be expected to start voting Tory. I have a good job, nice house and I’m pushing 40. I still find myself outraged at the majority of their policies. What’s blowing my mind is young lads, working trades on sites I go to who think “Boris” is a “legend” with no irony. If you are expecting the young to save us, you might be waiting a while.

Holy fuck, this place is depressing at the minute.

Probably “ Ooh!”

Clearly less risk in a well ventilated supermarket but it's a no brainer to wear a mask unless you're a selfish cunt. It's similar with the metro, most people have masks in the morning but no fucker bothers when I return in the evening.

The ones with bulldog spirit will come.

Two posts up, @Tom

Yep, also literally were the most influential member state along with France and Germany.

i think the country needs a good slice of shit, which is fortunate as it's in the post. a few years chowing down on fuel shortages, blackouts and empty supermarket shelves is exactly what the morons who voted for it deserve. hey dickheads, you voted to be poorer, now suck it up and shut up. we can talk again at the next GE if you see the error of your ways

The problem really stems from the wrong Miliband. Or maybe even Brown leaving his mic on in 2010. All sliding doors moments.

I think a lot of them prefer gesture politics & “luxury beliefs” to actually proposing solutions. I think basic common sense proposals would go down a storm at the moment but they’re afraid of being called tories if they come out with them. We don’t need radical change per se, just for things to be a bit less shit. One those changes are in place by all means move further left but for that to happen you have to genuinely “win the argument”.

Think I’ll get myself to the ‘sweet shop’ near Fist’s place tonight. Cheers for the reminder

So, the result of the dubious audit of the election results to prove that Trump won seems to be that the former guy actually got more than 200 votes less than in the official result. über-epic fail

You're right but that's because as you get older you aquire more wealth and gain more conservative values as you prioritise your family. Crucially you become a property owner. But will that happen with the millennials? They have been shafted in so many ways I doubt it. Propeery is beyond the reach of millions, have shit pensions, student loans, they have had FoM taken from them, and the birth rate is dropping because people can't afford kids or don't want to bring them up in a world ravaged by climate change. The tories have never even tried to hide their contempt for this generation. I can't see them being a compliant source of votes like the boomers were.

Really? A decent amount of the little englaenders have neither experienced the second world war nor the alleged golden era before joining the EU but without them neither would be your government in power nor would brexit have happened. It’s nothing you can just blame the over 70s alone. And for the record, it’s not any different in Germany, too. There is the same amount to people getting attracted by conservative and right wing nostalgia even if they had different views when they were young.

If the British public’s medium term record is anything to go by it’ll be another half decade before they turn on the tories….and there will have to be a new Labour leader who will stop the left in general tearing each other to shreds

It's fucking insane to pursue a policy of renewable energy (which is intermittent) without adequate stores of gas to use as a baseline. We have 6 days storage, typically countries on the continent have several months worth. I also read that CO2 is required in some of our operational nuclear plants meaning they could have to shut down if CO2 remains in short supply. Meaning the American CO2 producers have us by the short and curlies for both our food and energy production. The shit is well and truly going to hit the fan this winter.

It’s a good job those council bins are free or we’d be knacked for “hydro therapy”.

😂

Never heard of the cunt, err, I mean RIP.

A truly 'heartfelt message'.

He went back to Peru.